When are believers in Messiah Jesus "gathered unto him"?

@Wolfgang said:

I. Thanks, Wolfgang,, for the biblical questions. Let's address the context first.

Here are a few more questions to get a fuller understanding. You may want the answers to the following questions:

1. Who wrote this book?
2. What kind of person was he?
3. When did he write it?
4. Where was he?
5. What was the situation which prompted him to write?
6. Who were his intended readers?
7. Does history or archaeology contribute anything which would help me understand the background of this book?

Thessalonians, the thirteenth and fourteenth books of the New Testament, generally considered the two earliest canonical Pauline letters (though some scholars consider Galatians to be earlier).

Paul’s first letter apparently did not produce the desired effect, for the believers in Thessalonica still had such questions as whether the Day of the Lord had already come and gone. They were also perhaps confounded by a message unjustly attributed to Paul (2 Thess. 2:1–2). 2 Thessalonians is the apostle’s attempt to clarify further his views on the return of Christ.

This letter also starts with a salutation (2 Thess. 1:1–2) and thanksgiving on behalf of the Church (vv. 3–12). At 2:1–12 the apostle further clarifies his position on Christ’s return, warning that the Thessalonian believers should not be too easily swayed by any rumor that Christ has already returned.

•  Myers, A. C. (1987). In The Eerdmans Bible dictionary (p. 998). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.

The second letter to the Thessalonians begins much like the first, with greetings from Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy (1:1). The theme of this letter is practical godliness and serves to further explain some questions raised by Paul's first letter to the Thessalonian church.

The traditional chronology of 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians:

• Jewett, Robert. The Thessalonian Correspondence. Philadelphia, PN: Fortress, 1986, pp 26-30
• Malherbe, Abraham J. “Did the Thessalonians Write to Paul?” In The Conversation Continues: Studies in Paul and John in Honour of J. Louis Martyn, edited by Robert T. Fortna, & Beverly R. Gaventa, 246-257. Nashville, TN: Abingdon, 1990, pp 361-4

II. Unlike 1 Thessalonians, however, there is considerable debate regarding the authenticity of 2 Thessalonians. Mainly because they contained the apocalyptic passage in 2:1-12.

• See Fee, Gordon D. The First and Second Letters to the Thessalonians. NICNT. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2009, p 238

Who wrote 2 Thessalonians? Paul was the author of 2 Thessalonians. See the following reasons:

• 1) There is more external evidence in early Christian literature to support the Pauline authorship of 2 Thessalonians than for 1 Thessalonians.
• 2) The internal evidence not only refers to an earlier letter (2:15), the author claims that it is genuine (3:17). It's most lightly that false letters had apparently been circulating under Paul’s name (2.2).
• 3) Thessalonians would have been rejected if it was written under a false name.
• 4) Contrary to much scholarly opinion, pseudonymity was not a well-accepted way of writing letters in early Christian communities. Pseudonymity is based on questionable assumptions.
• 5) The differences in tone and style make good sense within the historical context since it appears that Paul’s initial relief had turned to frustration.
• 6) The differences in eschatology are also better explained within the historical situation, as far as it can be reconstructed.

RESOURCES:

• Green, Gene L. The Letters to the Thessalonians. PNTC. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2002., 59
• Karl P. Donfried, Paul, Thessalonica, and Early Christianity (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2002), 66
• Terry L. Wilder, Pseudonymity, the New Testament, and Deception (Lanham, MD: University Press of America, 2004).
• Jeremy N. Duff, A Reconsideration of Pseudepigraphy in Early Christianity (D.Phil. Thesis; University of Oxford, 1998).
• Still, Todd D. Conflict at Thessalonica. Sheffield: Sheffield Academic, 1999, p 53
• Dunn, James D. G. The Theology of Paul the Apostle. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2006, p 298 n. 23
• Ford, Desmond. The Abomination of Desolation in Biblical Eschatology. Washington, DC: University Press of America, 1979, 195-7.
• Nicholl, Colin R. From Hope to Dispair in Thessalonica: Situating 1 and 2 Thessalonians. Cambridge: Cambridge University, 2004, pp 205-8

To whom the Book was written? Answer: The Book was to the believers at Thessalonica.

• Thessalonica was one of several capitals in the Roman province of Macedonia. A bustling seaport in Paul's day.
• A major attraction in the first century A.D. was the celebrated amphitheater where gladiators fought to the death for the amusement of citizens and their guests.
• Paul first visited Thessalonica during his second missionary journey, which is thought to have occupied the years from A.D. 49 to 52. While visiting Asia Minor he received the divine call to minister in Macedonia (Acts 16:6-10). At Philippi he was bitterly opposed and, in fact, jailed. When released he departed to Thessalonica (Acts 17:1).
• Today the city is named Saloniki. Although it is no longer a major trade center, ships from many nations still come and go with cargos of oil, food, and animals. Ninety-seven percent of the population is Christian (Greek Orthodox).
• The letters of Paul to the church at Thessalonica, probably written between A.D. 50 and 52, give us in clear, concise language the apostle's concerns for the church, which he had only recently established.
• Paul's Epistles addressed the particular spiritual needs of his target group. The written message to the Ephesians, the Galatians or the Philippians, Colossians would not fit the needs of the congregation in Thessalonica. Paul's message to them was trailored-made to Thessalonians.
• The general theme of Paul's two Epistles to the Thessalonians is the need for consistent practical godliness on the part of those who are living for Christ's return.
• The personality, the triumphs, and the travails of the Thessalonian Christians parallel closely our present experiences and needs.

We are looking for the return of Christ. Many people in many places have been martyed, perscuted, and died Christ. The main message of the passage you cited has to do with" the day". John mentions twice the day of judgment and Christ’s coming, and in each instance, he uses a somewhat different expression:

• “The great day of God—tes hemeras megales tou theou” (Rev. 16:14).
• “The great day of wrath— he hemera he megale tes orges” ((Rev. 6:17).

These variations in the designation of the day of Christ’s coming indicate that the event was of such great importance that it could be designated in a great variety of ways without the risk of being misunderstood. No less than thirty times John refers explicitly to it in his book. See for example: Rev. 4:8; 6:10, 17; 11:15; 14:14; 16:15, 20; 19:7, 17; 20:11; 21; 22:7, 17.

In the New Testament, in fact, the day of Christ’s coming, which is regarded as the foundation and consummation of the Christian faith, hope, and living, is described by a wide variety of expressions, such as:

• “The day of judgment”-- Matt. 10:15; 12:36; Mark 6:11; 2 Pet. 2:9; 3:7; 1 John 4:17, Jude 6.
• “The day” -- Luke 17:30; Matt. 25:13; Rom. 13:12.
• “That day” -- Matt. 24:36; Mark 13:32; 14:25; Luke 10:12; 17:31; 21:34; 1 Tim. 1:12.
• “The last day"  -- John 6:39-40; 11:24; 12:48.
• “The great and notable day" -- Acts 2:20.
• “The day of wrath and revelation" -- Rom. 2:5; Rev. 6:17.
• “The day of our Lord Jesus Christ”; “The day of Christ" -- I Cor. 1:8; 2 Cor. 1:14; Phil. 1:6,10; 2 Thess. 2:2.
• “The day of the Lord" -- __ Thess. 5:2; 2 Pet. 3:10.
• “The great day" --  Rev. 6:17; Jude 6; Acts 2:20.
• “The great day of God" -- Rev. 6:14.

All these echos Scriptures of the past: Daniel 7 in 2 Thess 1:5-10 and an allusion to Daniel 11 in 2 Thess 2:3-4.

Christ himself calls the day of His coming “his day—hemera autou” (Luke 17:24). The fact that such a broad diversity of expressions is used to name the day of Christ’s coming, and the fact that John himself refers to it with different titles, make it altogether plausible that “the Lord’s day” is simply one of the many different designations for the same event (See Gerhard Delling, “hemera” TDNT II, p. 952: “In Paul as in the Gospels, Christ is the Lord of this hemera [i.e., day of His parousia].”.

III. "The last days" = In the Bible, it is often used for the entire period between the first and second advent [Heb. 1:1, 2]. Some were deceived by a pretended epistle from Paul (see 2 Thess. 2:1-3), which led Paul to repeat... that Christ would not come until after the Papacy had arisen and had run its course of persecution and blasphemy. Certainly, then, we have no chance to be deceived and to suppose that the immediate coming of the Lord was preached in the first century. It was true then that the coming of the Lord was 'at hand/ although not immediately.

The apostle Paul made clear that Christians were not to expect the return of Christ until after the development of apostasy in the Christian church.

God foretold that certain events would take place on the earth before the actual advent. The apostle Paul warned the church not to look for the coming of Christ in his day ... Not till after the great apostasy and the long period of the reign of the "man of sin", can we look for the advent of our Lord. The "man of sin", also reflects "the mystery of iniquity", "the son of perdition".

The following expressions from 2 Thess. 2:3-9, as they appear in the RSV.

• "The man of lawlessness" (2 Thess. 2:3).
• "The mystery of lawlessness" (2 Thess. 2:7).
• "The lawless one" (2 Thess. 2:8).
• "The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan" (2 Thess. 2:9).

The masculine form of "the abomination" in Mark 13:14 (hestekota, "standing") corresponds to Paul's "man of sin" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, K.J.V., that is, to the antichrist himself. 

The apostle Paul warned the Thessalonians not to expect the advent of Christ until after the development of "the man of sin" within the church. Paul emphasizes the fact that the power, so clearly described by the prophet Daniel:

Who or what is this "Little Horn power? (Another thread). It was yet to rise and wage war against God's people at the time Paul wrote. Until this power should have performed its deadly and blasphemous work, it would be in vain for the church to look for the coming of their Lord. Christ indicated human suffering would take place before Christians could expect His return. Matt. 24:21, 22.

Jesus understood the future destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 (Matt. 24:15–20, Luke 21:20–22) as a fulfillment of Daniel 9:26, 27. Paul refers to several successive prophetic events to be fulfilled within history before the second coming of Christ (2 Thess. 2:1–12).

I hope this helps in your quest for knowledge and understanding. CM

@Wolfgang said:

Have you considered this text?

'Now we beseech you, brethren, by (concerning) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by (concerning) our gathering together unto Him that ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand (at any moment), let no man deceive you, for that day shall not come except there come, a falling away first and the Man of Sin be revealed.' II Thess. 2:13. 

Better yet, who is the "man of sin"? This should help you reconsider your response above. CM

@C Mc said,

@Wolfgang

1. The Apostle Paul makes it absolutely clear that the "Man of Sin" was already working in his day.
2. How could this be a literal person, if he was alive in Paul’s day and yet is not destroyed until Jesus comes?
3. Is this one literal man who has lived over 2000 years? Come on, Wolgang, reason with me and the Scriptures.
4. The inevitable conclusion is that the Man of Sin cannot be a literal man nor can his period of dominion be literal time. (See II Thes. 2:1-13).
5. Please note: Paul is getting his picture of the "Man of Sin" from the little horn of Daniel 7, the little horn of Daniel 8, and the King of the North in Daniel 11.
6. This being the case, the little horn and the King of the North must have ruled for centuries, not for a few literal days.

There is a connection between "the man of sin" in 2 Thess 2 and "the little horn" of Dan 7. Don't you agree? if not, Why not? In view of the above points, your "John Levi of Gishala [Gischala]" (p.215, chapter 21) COULD NOT "qualify as a possible and plausible candidate". CM

I agree with you that the forums' software leave much to be desired in the way it handle quoting formatted text, Wolfgang. In my experience, I haven't been able to maintain either bullet point numbers or bolded portions when pasting bulleted text into my replies. And I, too, have experienced lost text in reply and/or pasting processes. Frustrating! HOWEVER, I have been able to insert responses in between lines of bulleted text and return bolded text to them via the following process:

1 - Paste the bulleted text into your reply, then delete any of the pasted lines to which you don't intend to reply.

2 - Mouse select the first line(s) to which you want to respond, then click the three horizontal lines formatting icon to the left of the selection, and click the "Paragraph" option (last option on the right).

3 - Position the cursor at the end of the newly formatted line, then hit Enter to move to a new line. Compose your response to that/those line(s).

4 - Select the quoted line(s) to which you have just responded and from the formatting options choose the quotation mark, then "Quote."

5 - Add back any bold-face print to the quoted lines, if you so choose.

6 - Repeat for all other line(s) to which you wish to reply.

YES, that's cumbersome process, but it works and per selection, it only takes 15-20 seconds, so I don't see it as a great imposition on the reply process.

@Wolfgang said:

Let's step back for a moment:

Note: Both Paul in 2 Thess 2 and Jesus in Matt 24 are reading from the same script (Daniel).

• Jesus, alluding to Dan 11:31, emphasizes the Desolation.
  • Jesus had said, "False Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible" (Matt 24:24).
• Paul, alluding to Dan 11:36, emphasizes the Desolator, or "man of lawlessness."
  • Paul narrows the focus down from many false Christs to a single miracle-working Antichrist who has both an apokalypsis (2 Thess 2:3, 8) and a parousia (2:9), like the true Christ (1:7, 2:8) that he impersonates.

Was Paul’s description colored somewhat by the messianic impostors cataloged by Josephus? Note his mention of

• A "rebellion" (vs. 3).
• The fact that "the secret power of lawlessness is already at work" (vs. 7).
• The "counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders" (vs. 9).
• That deceive "those who are perishing" (vs. 10).

This also explains the view of the early church fathers that vs. 6 ("you know what is holding him back") is a reference to the civil government (which at the time was the Roman Empire), an agency of God (Rom 13), which brutally suppressed such "lawless" messianic rebellions. But while Paul’s "man of lawlessness" may contain a trace of these outlaw messiahs, he also differs in being more successful in his deceptions and more hostile to Christianity.

1. Wolfgang, you don't see that the prophecy of Dan 11-12 provides the pattern for Jesus’ use of the phrase "the end" in Matt 24/Mark 13 and that Dan 12:1-7 influenced Jesus’ eschatology?
2. Daniel’s prophecy also explains why Jesus cites the abomination of desolation as a sign to flee Jerusalem (Matt 24:15-16): The abomination of desolation in Dan 11:31 is a precursor of the great tribulation of 12:1.
3. Can you accept the prophecy of Simeon at the dedication of Jesus, "This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel" (Luke 2:34), is probably an implied or indirect reference to Dan 11, which repeatedly mentions the "fall" and "rise" of "many," including the "wise," which first fall (Dan. 11:33-35), then rise (Dan. 12:2-3)? From His birth, Jesus’ destiny was set by Daniel. e.g

• The fall: Dan 11:19, 26, 33-35, 41.
• The rise: Dan. 11: 14, 23, 31; 12:1-3.
• The many: Dan 11:14, 26, 33, 34, 39, 40, 41, 42, 44, 12:3, 4, 10.

Please note this Wolfgang: Did you know Dan 11 also helps us understand 2 Thess 2?

• Paul in 2 Thess 2:3 says the man of lawlessness must precede the Parousia. I believe the antichrist figure of Dan 11:21-45 comes before the great tribulation and resurrection of Dan 12:1 and beyond.

In fact, the arrangement of events of Dan 11:21-45 provides several interesting parallels to 2 Thess 2 and Matt 24, including possible parallels to Paul’s puzzling "restrainer:"

Wars and rumors of war: ------------------- Dan 11:21-45 --------------- Matt 24:6-7

Deception ------------------------------------------ Dan 11:23, 27, 32 ---------- Matt 24: 4, 5, 11, 23 ------------------ 2 Th 2:3, 9-11

Lawless one restrained ----------------------- Dan 11:30, 32, 40? -------------------------------------------------------- 2 Th 2:6-7

Faithlessness, apostasy ---------------------- Dan 11:30, 32 --------------- Matt 24:10 ------------------------------ 2 Th 2:4?

Abomination in the temple ----------------- Dan 11:31 ------------------- Matt 24:15 ----------------------------- 2 Th 2:4

Lawless one exalts himself ----------------- Dan 11:36-37 ------------------------------------------------------------- 2 Th 2:4

Lawless less one’s demise _____________ Dan 11:45 -------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 Th 2:3, 8

Unprecedented tribulation ____________ Dan 12:1 --------------------- Matt 24:21

Resurrection ___________________________ Dan 12:2 ------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Th 4:13-18

"All things completed" ________________ Dan 12:7 -------------------- Matt 24:34

Paul in 2 Thess 2 is saying that the Second Coming cannot occur until the prophecy of Daniel and Jesus about the abomination of desolation is fulfilled—which had not happened yet when he wrote. But by the time John wrote his epistles near the end of the first century, the antichrist, too, had become realized eschatology:

Oh, say, Wolfgang, can you see? CM

For sources and further reading on 2 Thess. 2:10–12:

• McGinn, Bernard. Antichrist: Two Thousand Years of the Human Fascination with Evil. San Francisco: Harper San Francisco, 1994, 60.
• --  Irenaeus of Lyons. (1885). Irenæus against Heresies. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 557). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.
  • -- 5.25.3 (ANF 1:553, 554).
  • --5.30.4 (ANF 1:560).
• Hippolytus of Rome. (1886). Treatise on Christ and Antichrist. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), S. D. F. Salmond (Trans.), Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Novatian, Appendix (Vol. 5, p. 218). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, ANF 5:218.