Christian Scriptures that stump trinitarians.
Jesus Christ stated, "God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24)
The trinity teaches God is made up of three seperate persons. Yet, trintarians themselves are in conflict with this doctrine. They oftrn dismiss their own teaching of three seperate persons by claiming only one or two of the three seperate pesons is God.
These seprate persons have No Names thus many trinitarians teach that God has No Name. Doesn't Everyone have a Name?
Thankful for Google transliterates יהוה in English as Jehovah. Visit JW.org about whom Jesus Christ calls the Only True God in (John 17:3)
Comments
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Do you actually make this nonsense up out of your own head, or do you just barf out every absurdity the Watchtower feeds you?
I doubt that anyone relates to it because no one thinks such craziness. But you can keep flailing at ghosts if you get some pleasure from that. It is a curious mix of sad and amusing for us to watch.
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“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4 KJV)
Trinitarians preach a different gospel. They claim the soul is immortal and never dies. They will often evade the scripture and toss wild accusations and insults. We are told by their actions we cannot beleive what this scriptures states?
If the soul never dies as trinitarians claim, then why did Jesus die for our sins?? Are you starting to see how their anti-chrisitan ideas are starting to seep in?
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@BroRando posted:
Are you starting to see how their anti-chrisitan ideas are starting to seep in?
Followers of Jesus who embrace Trinitarian theology are NOT anti-Christian, and therefore, in their Christological views have NO "anti-Christian ideas" to "seep in" anywhere.
There are such things as "anti-Christian" ideas, but they're not found in Trinitarian Christology. Your baseless assertion that they are needlessly widens the divide between the movement you claim to represent and the large segment of the Body of Christ that accepts the Trinity, as well as people such me who do not accept the Trinity, but respect and celebrate the faith of those who do.
I welcome you to your Christology, and encourage you to welcome others to theirs, especially when theirs disagrees with yours.
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Thank you Bill for your opinion. However, there aren't any members of the Body of Christ who accept the trinity. None.
The very ones who reject (Acts 2:38) aren't baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ. However, the ones who have accepted the Chrsitian Baptism, these ones are my brothers.
Who are my Brothers? For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:50
- “Or do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?” (Romans 6:3)
However, between the years 315 and 325 CE the Hebrew Book of Matthew was shelved or in some manner hidden away. "The Greek version used by Eusebius poured more widely these verses, but in no way changing the sense of the Hebrew text, because when he quotes in his Ecclesiastical History (Book 3, Chapter 5:2) part of Matthew 28:19, he writes:
“Poreuthentes mathêteusate panta ta ethnê en to onomati mou” or
“Go and make disciples of all nations in my name.”
"In fact, Eusebius refers to this passage well over a dozen times in the same form as the above quotations. Now you must also be aware that this quotation by Eusebius is also earlier than our earliest manuscripts for this verse. Hence, it is quite possible that a corruption occurred around the time the Arian controversy broke out under Constantine's reign. The following quotation is particularly interesting:
For he did not enjoin them “to make disciples of all the nations” simply and without qualification, but with the essential addition “in his name”.
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"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)
The trinity rejects to acknowlede Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This Christian Scripture stumbles trinitarians because they have a different teaching. They changed and altered scripture to fasley claim 'God manifested in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16) The word “God” is added. It is not in the original Greek. The actual word in the Greek is “he” and it is referring to Jesus Christ.
So who is the one person that would do such a thing to change and alter scripture? The scripture states, "This is the deceiver and the antichrist." The Anti-Christ and Deceiver is so bold he even struck out "Christ" from Mark 1:34 LEB. Notice the Greek Mark 1:34?
The majority of Bible translations removed Christ and are easy to spot. However, I did mention several translations that held true and gave witness to the Christ. Even though the Anti-Christ is bold and cunning, he's not all that smart because the parallel account is at Lu 4:41 that reads: “They knew him to be the Christ.”
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@BroRando posted:
Thank you Bill for your opinion. However, there aren't any members of the Body of Christ who accept the trinity. None.
The very ones who reject (Acts 2:38) aren't baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ. However, the ones who have accepted the Chrsitian Baptism, these ones are my brothers.
Who are my Brothers? For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:50
“Or were baptized into his death?” ()
AN IMPORTANT DETAIL: In Matthew 12, Jesus does NOT say those "who have accepted the Christian baptism" are his brothers. He says those who do the will of his Father are his "brother and sister and mother." I checked the NWT in case that's where you found reference to "Christian baptism" in Matthew 12.50, but its translation of the verse is the same as all others'. Please identify the Bible translation(s) that support your summary of Jesus' words in Matthew 12.50.
I could write an extended essay on the issues at play here [for example, the number of baptisms that occur in the New Testament with NO advisory as to the name(s) in which persons were baptized (e.g. Acts 8.36-38; Acts 9.18; Acts 16.15; Acts 16.33; Acts 18.8) and the various names associated with other NT baptisms (e.g. Acts 1.5 - the Holy Spirit; Acts 8.16; 19.5 - "the Lord Jesus"; Acts 10-46-48 - "Jesus Christ"; Acts 22.16 - perhaps "the Lord"), which raises the question, which "name" is the "correct" name in which to be baptized?] but I don't have time to explore all those texts. Instead, I offer the following larger point....
In 1 Corinthians 12, Paul describes the diverse composition of the Body of Christ. Jews & Greeks, slaves & free persons are all part of "one" body. How did they become members of that "one" body? 1 Cor 13 says,
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.
Paul refers to the Spirit and to baptism, but makes no reference to the name(s) in which persons are to be baptized (see Acts 1.5 for Jesus' prediction that his followers would be baptized with the Holy Spirit). In the verses that follow in 1 Cor 12, Paul uses body part imagery to say no part of the Body of Christ should exclude itself from the Body because of its function/role, and neither can any Body part exclude any other part on the basis of their functions/roles in the Body.
14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” not because of this is it not a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” not because of this is it not a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body just as he wanted. 19 And if they all were one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body.
Given Paul's CLEAR counsel that the Body of Christ is both one AND intentionally diverse, and the lack of a consistent and mandatory NT nomenclature by which believers are to baptized, I think your claim that neither any trinitarian nor those who aren't "baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" are part of the Body of Christ is baseless and false. (As is, by the way, your claim that members of your group are "the only true Christians walking about the earth." That claim is sublimely ridiculous and absurd, not to mention deeply offensive to the message of the Gospel.) That I was baptized in the name of the "Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" back in 1968 does NOT exclude me from the Body of Christ. Nor were any of the people I've baptized through the decades of my ministry using that same nomenclature excluded from the Body.
Hands, feet, eyes, and ears ALL belong in the Body of Christ - those baptized in the name of "the Lord," or "the Lord Jesus," or "Jesus Christ," or "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
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It's interesting how hard you work against the Christian Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ. One reason you have no idea what it is because you're not Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38)
@Bill_Coley That I was baptized in the name of the "Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" back in 1968 does NOT exclude me from the Body of Christ.
- Keep selling yourself that lie. You're not the first to deny the Chrisitan Baptism. Notice this scripture? “one Lord, one faith, one baptism;” (Ephesians 4:5) The Anti-Christ come up with its' own Baptism, one that replaces Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul calls that body joined to the Harlot. The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263: “The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.”
"For so great was the virtue attaching to his appellation that the Apostle says, "God bestowed on him the name above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth." It was right therefore that he should emphasize the virtue of the power residing in his name but hidden from the many, and therefore say to his Apostles, "Go ye, and make disciples of all the nations in my name.’ (Demonstatio Evangelica, col. 240, p. 136)
In the last days, yes, in the time of the end. these things would be revealed. Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end." (Daniel 12:9)
"Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." (Daniel 12:10)
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Accuracy and truth-telling, especially when it comes to the way we summarize each other's views, is critically important to healthy, constructive forum exchanges, @BroRando. NOTHING in my previous post reflected ANY attempt on my part to "work against the Christian Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ." I specifically declared that those who are baptized in the name of "Jesus Christ" "belong in the Body of Christ." Your claim is false.
I DO know what that baptism is. So that claim of yours is false also.
Keep selling yourself that lie. You're not the first to deny the Chrisitan Baptism.
I do not "deny the Christian Baptism." Your claim is false.
Notice this scripture? “one Lord, one faith, one baptism;” (Ephesians 4:5)
Where in Ephesians 4.5 do you find mention of the nomenclature in which that "one baptism" is to be performed?
In my view, the "one baptism" refers not to its nomenclature, but to its meaning and significance.
The Anti-Christ come up with its' own Baptism, one that replaces Jesus Christ.
Neither the pastor who baptized me nor I, as I baptized all the people I've baptized over the years, thought or spoke of the baptismal formula "in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as a replacement for Jesus Christ. We all believe that those who are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ are fully members of the Body of Christ. Hence, your claim is false.
The Apostle Paul calls that body joined to the Harlot
In its context, Paul's reference to being joined to a harlot/prostitute (1 Cor 6.12-20) has nothing to do with the nomenclature used in baptisms; it has to do with sexual immorality (1 Cor 6.16-20). Your claim is false.
In my previous post I asked what version(s) of the Bible you relied on when you claimed that Matthew 12.50 referred to "the Christian baptism." Since you didn't address my question, I ask it again now.
And what precisely is the name in which persons should be saved: "The Lord Jesus," Acts 8.16; 19.5 | "Jesus Christ," Acts 10.46-48 | or perhaps "the righteous one," Acts 22.14-16?
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Matthew 15:14
Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
Matthew 23:24
Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!
Matthew 23:16
“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is under obligation.’
Luke 6:39
Then he also told them an illustration: “A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Both will fall into a pit, will they not?
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@BroRando posted:
Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
If your intention in quoting the four verses that were the entire content of your most recent response to me was to call me a "blind guide," then you succeeded. If, however, your intention was to respond to the substance of my previous post - specifically, to the two questions I asked you at that post's conclusion - so as to contribute to a constructive exchange of ideas between us, then you failed.
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"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." Deuteronomy 6:4
"Look! My servant, whom I support! My chosen one, whom I have approved! I have put my spirit in him; He will bring justice to the nations." Isaiah 42:1
- Jesus is Jehovah's Servant
- Jesus was Chosen by Jehovah
- Jesus was Approved by Jehovah
- Jehovah put his spirit into Jesus
- Jesus as King of God's Kingdom will bring justice to the nations
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So you are saying @BroRando has to come here to post because he breaks the rules of his own site?
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He frequents a variety of sites, spamming and trolling them. He also maintains a variety of social media sites, mainly aiming back to his website. Google him.
"Discussion" on his own site has 3 topics, 4-12 people, appears tightly controlled, and remains undeveloped.
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To the programmer of @BroRando,
Would you please input into the @BroRando system that NOT ALL
"Trinitarians" preach or teach that "the soul is immortal and never dies."
Just because all JWs are monolithic, Trinitarians are not the same. Would you please program a computer system to reflect this truth? Whether @BroRando is a person or database, consider updating his files as soon as possible, at least show society that someone is in the control room.
No serious student of the Bible believes that man is immortal and can "never die."
- Souls do die! The Bible often uses the word "soul" to mean simply "a person," "a human being." Ezekiel 18:4, 20.
- The soul can be destroyed (Matthew 10:28).
- Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 1:17; 6:15, 16).
- Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6. --- What happens to a person when they die? The Bible is clear that when a person dies, they know nothing. They cease to exist; their feelings and emotions come to an end; they have no part in what happens on earth.
- Psalm 146:3,4 -- Their thoughts perish.
- Psalm 115:17 -- The dead do not praise God.
Any form of man's immortality of the soul, this side of the return of Jesus, is unbiblical! A cursory reading of the Scriptures reveals the mortality of the soul unequivocally e.g.
- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. -- The righteous people who have died will live again-when Jesus returns. Until then, they sleep in the grave-unconscious, waiting for their Lord to raise them to immortal life.
- Matthew 24:23, 24. -- The last days will be a time of deception. Satan is particularly eager to deceive us regarding what happens after death because a misunderstanding here opens the way for him to introduce a multitude of deceptions.
- Leviticus 20:27. -- God warns us against consulting those who claim to be able to communicate with the dead.
If the texts above are not enough, see the following links in CD for expanded information and discussions:
- Let The Dead Rest In Peace: https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/958/let-the-dead-rest-in-peace
- Purgatory: Is it Biblical? If not, what is its Origin?: https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/504/purgatory-is-it-biblical-if-not-what-is-its-origin
- Does the OT speaks of a Bodily Resurrection?: https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/19678/#Comment_19678
- The First Lie believed by World Religions!: https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/18682/#Comment_18682
- The Talking Dead? https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/13038#Comment_this13038
- https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/13151/#Comment_13151
- Praying For The Dead: Possible, Truth, or Heresy?
- https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/19899/#Comment_19899
I appreciate your consideration. Please input the corrections so your system wouldn't spew out this falsehood in the future. CM
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"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." Deuteronomy 6:4
"Look! My servant, whom I support! My chosen one, whom I have approved! I have put my spirit in him; He will bring justice to the nations." Isaiah 42:1
- Jesus is Jehovah's Servant
- Jesus was Chosen by Jehovah
- Jesus was Approved by Jehovah
- Jehovah put his spirit into Jesus
- Jesus as King of God's Kingdom will bring justice to the nations
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From GotQuestions:
God in the Old Testament
I AM (Exodus 3:14–15; Isaiah 48:12)
The Shepherd (Psalm 23:1)
The Light (Psalm 27:1)
The Rock (Psalm 18:2)
Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6)
Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12)
The Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16)
God’s Word never passes away (Isaiah 40:8)
The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27; Ezra 34:9)
First and the Last (Isaiah 48:12)
Jesus’ Reference to Himself
I AM (John 8:58)
The Shepherd (John 10:11)
The Light (John 8:12)
The Rock (Matthew 7:24)
Ruler of all (Matthew 28:18)
Judge of all (John 5:22)
The Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1)
Jesus’ words never pass away (Mark 13:31)
The Sower (Matthew 13:3–9)
First and the Last (Revelation 1:17–18)
The New Testament writers also refer to Jesus as God many times (e.g., Matthew 3:16–17; John 1:1–3,14; John 20:28; Romans 9:5; Philippians 2:5–8, 9–11; Colossians 1:16–19; 2:9–10; 1 Timothy 6:15; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:8; 13:8; Revelation 1:8, 17; 2:8; 17:14; 19:16; 21:6; 22:13).
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Thanks for the texts. I doubt that @Bill_Coley and the JWs computer called @BroRando see the message behind the passages. Can blind eyes see? As for the computer system, you know what is said, a system is as good as the information input. "Garbage in, garbage out."
Let's hope in the fullness of time; the light will shine through their opaque minds to embrace the truth as revealed in Scripture. CM
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Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)
Since the trinity rejects Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, trinitarians avoid (Matthew 16:16) at all costs. This one Christian Scripture is very different from the many variations of trinities.
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@C Mc I can’t tell if a person is really there or not. I think so. If so, then it’s certainly not a normal person as we know one.
I agree that we likely aren’t reaching the heart of the poster. However we do have opportunity to present Scripture and reason to those who believe false JW doctrine. We also freshen up on refuting JW falsehood which could prove helpful.
Light always makes darkness flee. Poor Wolfgang. Hoping that Wolfgang can’t outrun the light. He is clearly struggling with truth. No doubt Bill is as well.
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@Truth However we do have opportunity to present Scripture and reason to those who believe false JW doctrine. We also freshen up on refuting JW falsehood which could prove helpful.
Notice how triniarians are programmed and brainwashed claiming (Matthew 16:16) is JW doctrine. Since the trinity rejects Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, trinitarians avoid (Matthew 16:16) at all costs in denying Christ.
How much do you know about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
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@Truth said:
@C Mc I can’t tell if a person is really there or not. I think so. If so, then it’s certainly not a normal person as we know one.
I don’t concur with you at this juncture. I have asked for proof or verification that @BroRando is a real person. I suggested he or someone from JWs reveal his true identity to @Jan, the chairman. I don’t personally need to know, but it needs affirmation. Are we dealing with a person or a self-generated algorithmic computer? I am not setting a new standard for individuals to particular in CD. This system did sprew some interesting historical points.
Nevertheless, I am not convinced or impressed if @BroRando occasionally responds to a question appropriately. “Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then.” Verification of humanity! Without it, engaging is a “poor stewardship of time,” in @Bill_Coley words.
For the sake of the tag name, @BroRando, I hope it is a computer system, e.g., repetitive terms, illustrations, website sources, etc. Hopefully, it can be fixed or reprogrammed if it proves to be a computer. On the other hand, if @BroRando turns out to be a person, ... . And if all JWs are like @BroRando posting style... .
Until then, remain prayerful and keep studying. CM
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Are you suggesting that @BroRando is Artificial Intelligence? If so, I am disappointed with present technology
We may as well amuse ourselves under the circumstances.
i have a friend who could make up a great rap about a Jay Dub bot.
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Could be. If you check the Rando spam on similar sites, it’s all pretty much the same.
Kinda funny if it wasn’t a serious matter.
@Bill_Coley and his alleged multiple aliases (who knows?!) is almost certainly human—for example, judging by strangely vicious denial of alias use. But Rando…is a pretty amazing bot if it is. At least Rando isn’t likely any time soon to be a love bot.
