Why Is Arming Teachers A Bad Idea?
Comments
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@Bill_Coley said:
@GaoLu said:
Wrong: Firearms were part of the school where I taught. They were part of the school where I grew up.I had far worse chemistry accidents....
Nah Bill, and CM. You missed again. Tempest in a teacup. Your arguments are unimpressive and don't evoke much emotion but a grin.When you revisit the argument I made regarding chemistry classes in my previous post, Gao Lu, you'll find that it didn't compare the potential severity of injuries suffered in them as compared to firearm-fitted classrooms. My argument instead contended that chemistry is an organic part of educational curricula (pun noted, but not intended) whereas firearms are not.
I disagree about potential severity. You can have explosions and chain reactions in chemistry classes.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
I disagree about potential severity. You can have explosions and chain reactions in chemistry classes.And when YOU revisit the argument I made regarding chemistry classes in a previous post, David, you'll find that it didn't compare the potential severity of injuries suffered in them as compared to firearm-fitted classrooms. My argument instead contended that chemistry is an organic part of educational curricula (pun noted, but not intended) whereas firearms are not.
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@Bill_Coley said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
I disagree about potential severity. You can have explosions and chain reactions in chemistry classes.And when YOU revisit the argument I made regarding chemistry classes in a previous post, David, you'll find that it didn't compare the potential severity of injuries suffered in them as compared to firearm-fitted classrooms. My argument instead contended that chemistry is an organic part of educational curricula (pun noted, but not intended) whereas firearms are not.
I understand that, that's why I did not challenge that part of your statement. I agree with you that in that sense it is apples and oranges. My point though is that should not be the reason, freak accidents, as to why teachers should not be armed.
But with the specific instance you brought up, I don't think gun safety should necessarily be part of the school curriculum. And I also don't think you should have a loaded gun out in a classroom unless you intend to eliminate a threat.
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Keeping the OP in view, "Arming Teachers is a bad idea" because parents should commit their children to the hands of God each morning. They should be entrusted into the hands of instructors, not into the hands of one who will take a life at a moment's notice.
Christian Parents should place the children in God's hands, not under the care and protection of a gun carrying teacher. "He who lives by the gun dies by the gun." Parents are not to be fooled and shamed by the NRA or any "so-called" well-meaning Christian that gun carrying teachers are good and the necessary norms of the day.
Pro-lifers are being hypocritical on this issue. What's the difference between a gun carrying teacher and an abortion doctor? Why won't they stand with the children that is? Sad! CM
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@C_M_ said:
Pro-lifers are being hypocritical on this issue. What's the difference between a gun carrying teacher and an abortion doctor? Why won't they stand with the children that is? Sad! CMDo you stand against abortion now?! Or maybe you still are not saying...but you are still against the NRA.
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Re-read my last question:
Pro-lifers are being hypocritical on this issue...Why won't they stand with the children that is [are]? Sad! CM
Correction: "Children that are?
Thinking out loud: What are the differences between the "now" and the "not yet"? "Is" and "the promise"? The "have" and "they have not"? Oh, is the NRA "Pro-life"?
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A child in the womb or no farther from its mother's heart than a child out of the womb in her arms. Both are alive and one does not have a different quality of life than the other in any sense except a few biological details involving how he or she breathes. To kill either is equally abominable.
Your "have not" could refer to breakfast, birth or bath. Not that it makes any difference. It makes none.
I make these arguments not because I think they will change your mind and not to make an emotional appeal. If a person's heart doesn't get that killing a child is wrong, then what they need is a heart change--the operation of God--and then they won't need to hear all those things. They will know them. So, I write such things as a clear demarcation between angry, snapping, vicious, predatory wolves (deceitfully dressed up like sweet old ladies) and True lambs of God. There are other tests, but that is a really crisp, clear one.
I would guess that the greatest defender of life and liberty and unborn children are among NRA supporters. That is a guess but I bet you know its true without counting noses.
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@GaoLu said:
I would guess that the greatest defender of life and liberty and unborn children are among NRA supporters. That is a guess but I bet you know its true without counting noses.
Is this the same group of people supplying guns, equipping teachers to KILL intruders and possibly, their own students doing an exchange? Are these children close to their mother's hearts? The teachers will be trained to carry a gun, shoot to kill--take a life. They will be retooled to be judge jury and executors toward the gunman or anyone whom they deem a threat. I can promise you, when this law is passed, pushed by your President and supported by the NRA, whom he is beholding, mistakes will happen. Would you want to be that teacher or the one to tell a parent her child was "collateral damage?" If not why encourage others to do it?
I can't wrap my mind around people who are passionate to protect what you called the "unborn" and yet; so willing to supply, support and encourage others to KILL. Hire more police officers, but don't contaminate teachers and well-meaning Christians with this authorization to kill on the installment plan. It seems to be that as long as the numbers are low, in comparison to abortions, it's all right. This killing by assignment must not be implemented or supported by loving parents, especially Christian ones.
Guns in the classrooms are a bad idea because there is a better use of resources. Money should be spent raising teachers' salary, improve School building, step up teachers' in-service development, increase the number of Social workers and counselors, etc.
GaoLu, do you know the rate of teacher's suicides, in general, and the ones by guns, in particular? Why would a Christian want to deal in death promotion, death instrument, death incidents, death talk, death, etc?
When you equip Schools, what about churches synagogues, Muslim Muslim mosque, and temples. What about your American "equal protection under the law"? Not applicable to churches? If a teacher is able to shot an intruder "successfully" is the teacher removed from the classroom? Is he given a metal or an accommodation? What the family of the intruder, what assurance they wouldn't seek acts of revenge? Does the teacher take the gun home?
Arming teachers is a bad idea because it has too many mental, social, financial, safety, psychological, spiritual, moral, and uncommon sense consequences unforeseen. Not to mention, the legal ramifications yet to be considered. e.g. If a gun carrying teacher has a change of heart about killing, can the parents of the dead child sue the teacher, school board, city or state? What if the gun malfunctions, who sues whom?
Teachers should not become agents of death on behalf of the state, Mr. Trump, and the NRA. Guns in the classroom are NOT the way. CM
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If I thought guns were running around killing people I would agree with you. They are not. People use guns to do bad things, true. Take away guns and they will use pitch forks or stones. Cain figured that one out way back some time ago.
If the NRA favored killing people, I would oppose them. They do not favor killing people.
Because all your premises are wrong, therefore your conclusions haven't even hit the broad side of the barn.
I do read what you say, ponder it and understand your point of view. I just think you believe you have treed yourself a coon, only to discover it is a frightened little mouse.
Post edited by GaoLu on -
@GaoLu said:
If I thought guns were running around people I would agree with you. They are not. People use guns to do bad things, true. Take away guns and they will use pitch forks or stones. Cain figured that one out way back some time ago.If the NRA favored killing people, I would oppose them. They do not favor killing people.
Because all your premises are wrong, therefore your conclusions haven't even hit the broad side of the barn.
I do read what you say, ponder it and understand your point of view. I just think you believe you have treed yourself a coon, only to discover it is a frightened little mouse.
I agree that all of the premises are wrong and hypotheticals are based on fantastic hyperbole.
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I remember talking a teacher down who was pacing the floor soaking up whiskey after a day on the job in the classroom. He was thinking of enlisting for duty in Desert Storm that had just broken out. I would not want him armed. I also remember teachers stressed beyond the limit, stuffing kids in lockers, and physically abusing them in ways that would have brought lawsuits today.
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgement trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
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@Dave_L said:
I remember talking a teacher down who was pacing the floor soaking up whiskey after a day on the job in the classroom. He was thinking of enlisting for duty in Desert Storm that had just broken out. I would not want him armed. I also remember teachers stressed beyond the limit, stuffing kids in lockers, and physically abusing them in ways that would have brought lawsuits today.Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgement trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
I remember talking a teacher down who was pacing the floor soaking up whiskey after a day on the job in the classroom. He was thinking of enlisting for duty in Desert Storm that had just broken out. I would not want him armed. I also remember teachers stressed beyond the limit, stuffing kids in lockers, and physically abusing them in ways that would have brought lawsuits today.Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgement trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
They might be extreme, but I think it is regional too. Some schools have a different type of student than others. Also age groups seem to play a role. But I've seen many teachers snap over the years, only to return and snap again days, weeks, or years later.
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Exactly, David. I was a school teacher for 9 years. I certainly had stress, but the things you say don't apply to me or anyone I ever knew any time in my life (including a few really odd teachers with issues).
I do recall the time a classmate was hopped up on drugs and carrying around a length of pipe saying he would kill anyone who got in his way. Teachers kept the kids in--though plenty wanted to go prove their manliness and be the hero. A couple teachers who happened to have martial arts skills quickly and harmlessly took the young man out of harm's way. All was well. Oh, those were the good old days!
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@GaoLu said:
Exactly, David. I was a school teacher for 9 years. I certainly had stress, but the things you say don't apply to me or anyone I ever knew any time in my life (including a few really odd teachers with issues).I do recall the time a classmate was hopped up on drugs and carrying around a length of pipe saying he would kill anyone who got in his way. Teachers kept the kids in--though plenty wanted to go prove their manliness and be the hero. A couple teachers who happened to have martial arts skills quickly and harmlessly took the young man out of harm's way. All was well. Oh, those were the good old days!
I'm glad your teaching experience was more pleasant. But I've seen what I'm talking about first hand and have not mentioned the rest.
I think if teachers wanted to be cops, they would have went that way. Or visa versa. But to try to make someone into something they are not is also a bad move.
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@Dave_L said:
@GaoLu said:
Exactly, David. I was a school teacher for 9 years. I certainly had stress, but the things you say don't apply to me or anyone I ever knew any time in my life (including a few really odd teachers with issues).I do recall the time a classmate was hopped up on drugs and carrying around a length of pipe saying he would kill anyone who got in his way. Teachers kept the kids in--though plenty wanted to go prove their manliness and be the hero. A couple teachers who happened to have martial arts skills quickly and harmlessly took the young man out of harm's way. All was well. Oh, those were the good old days!
I'm glad your teaching experience was more pleasant. But I've seen what I'm talking about first hand and have not mentioned the rest.
How many teachers Dave? How many schools? I don't mean to be rude, but you have made these types of claims with other topics (churches and their theology) with nothing to back it up. We are supposed to just take your word for it?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@GaoLu said:
Exactly, David. I was a school teacher for 9 years. I certainly had stress, but the things you say don't apply to me or anyone I ever knew any time in my life (including a few really odd teachers with issues).I do recall the time a classmate was hopped up on drugs and carrying around a length of pipe saying he would kill anyone who got in his way. Teachers kept the kids in--though plenty wanted to go prove their manliness and be the hero. A couple teachers who happened to have martial arts skills quickly and harmlessly took the young man out of harm's way. All was well. Oh, those were the good old days!
I'm glad your teaching experience was more pleasant. But I've seen what I'm talking about first hand and have not mentioned the rest.
How many teachers Dave? How many schools? I don't mean to be rude, but you have made these types of claims with other topics (churches and their theology) with nothing to back it up. We are supposed to just take your word for it?
So you are calling me a liar. How can I back it up without documentation?
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@GaoLu said:
Exactly, David. I was a school teacher for 9 years. I certainly had stress, but the things you say don't apply to me or anyone I ever knew any time in my life (including a few really odd teachers with issues).I do recall the time a classmate was hopped up on drugs and carrying around a length of pipe saying he would kill anyone who got in his way. Teachers kept the kids in--though plenty wanted to go prove their manliness and be the hero. A couple teachers who happened to have martial arts skills quickly and harmlessly took the young man out of harm's way. All was well. Oh, those were the good old days!
I'm glad your teaching experience was more pleasant. But I've seen what I'm talking about first hand and have not mentioned the rest.
How many teachers Dave? How many schools? I don't mean to be rude, but you have made these types of claims with other topics (churches and their theology) with nothing to back it up. We are supposed to just take your word for it?
So you are calling me a liar. How can I back it up without documentation?
Since you are claiming something that can't be observed by anyone else, and hasn't been to my knowledge, you can't back it up without documentation.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@GaoLu said:
Exactly, David. I was a school teacher for 9 years. I certainly had stress, but the things you say don't apply to me or anyone I ever knew any time in my life (including a few really odd teachers with issues).I do recall the time a classmate was hopped up on drugs and carrying around a length of pipe saying he would kill anyone who got in his way. Teachers kept the kids in--though plenty wanted to go prove their manliness and be the hero. A couple teachers who happened to have martial arts skills quickly and harmlessly took the young man out of harm's way. All was well. Oh, those were the good old days!
I'm glad your teaching experience was more pleasant. But I've seen what I'm talking about first hand and have not mentioned the rest.
How many teachers Dave? How many schools? I don't mean to be rude, but you have made these types of claims with other topics (churches and their theology) with nothing to back it up. We are supposed to just take your word for it?
So you are calling me a liar. How can I back it up without documentation?
Since you are claiming something that can't be observed by anyone else, and hasn't been to my knowledge, you can't back it up without documentation.
But, you assume I'm lying. God knows my heart. You can only judge me by yours.
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@GaoLu said:
If I thought guns were running around killing people I would agree with you. They are not. People use guns to do bad things, true. Take away guns and they will use pitch forks or stones. Cain figured that one out way back some time ago.If the NRA favored killing people, I would oppose them. They do not favor killing people.
Because all your premises are wrong, therefore your conclusions haven't even hit the broad side of the barn.
I do read what you say, ponder it and understand your point of view. I just think you believe you have treed yourself a coon, only to discover it is a frightened little mouse.
If your responsive reasoning is accurate and sober, how fair would it be if one were to apply it to abortions? "Just saying" CM
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@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
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@C_M_ said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@C_M_ said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
Again, I think some schools are better than others and perhaps you were more fortunate. But neither of us have been outside our circles. So you reflect your experiences and I reflect mine. I'm glad you had it as good as you did.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@C_M_ said:
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
Again, I think some schools are better than others and perhaps you were more fortunate.
This is one more reason why arming teachers is a bad idea. The community and the size of the could mean a did appropriate number of guns could be in the area.
But neither of us have been outside our circles. So you reflect your experiences and I reflect mine. I'm glad you had it as good as you did.
This is unfortunate. It the same time, it minimizes both arguments, if true, on the subject. No, it doesn't you can't have input or value. It says your contributions are limited and narrowed in scope. Both are Ok.
CM -
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@C_M_ said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
Again, I think some schools are better than others and perhaps you were more fortunate. But neither of us have been outside our circles. So you reflect your experiences and I reflect mine. I'm glad you had it as good as you did.
No, I'm looking at the nation as a whole, not just schools in my area.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@C_M_ said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
Again, I think some schools are better than others and perhaps you were more fortunate. But neither of us have been outside our circles. So you reflect your experiences and I reflect mine. I'm glad you had it as good as you did.
No, I'm looking at the nation as a whole, not just schools in my area.
I think we would need to grow up in each school system to know the extent of violence. I know of mental abuse, physical, and sexual abuse in the last school system I attended and mental abuse in one before that. Years later I spoke with a former teacher who asked my opinion about one abusive teacher in particular. I know he would be in jail today because of his notoriety.
So you might want to arm your teachers, I certainly do not want to arm mine. The floor pacing whiskey guzzling teacher wanting to go to the front lines was from a totally different school system. And I know of abuse in another swept under the carpet.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@C_M_ said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
Again, I think some schools are better than others and perhaps you were more fortunate. But neither of us have been outside our circles. So you reflect your experiences and I reflect mine. I'm glad you had it as good as you did.
No, I'm looking at the nation as a whole, not just schools in my area.
I think we would need to grow up in each school system to know the extent of violence. I know of mental abuse, physical, and sexual abuse in the last school system I attended and mental abuse in one before that. Years later I spoke with a former teacher who asked my opinion about one abusive teacher in particular. I know he would be in jail today because of his notoriety.
So you might want to arm your teachers, I certainly do not want to arm mine. The floor pacing whiskey guzzling teacher wanting to go to the front lines was from a totally different school system. And I know of abuse in another swept under the carpet.
Once again, you are looking at a microscopic situation and applying it generally to the whole. That is a fallacy and not the way to go about this at all.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@C_M_ said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
Again, I think some schools are better than others and perhaps you were more fortunate. But neither of us have been outside our circles. So you reflect your experiences and I reflect mine. I'm glad you had it as good as you did.
No, I'm looking at the nation as a whole, not just schools in my area.
I think we would need to grow up in each school system to know the extent of violence. I know of mental abuse, physical, and sexual abuse in the last school system I attended and mental abuse in one before that. Years later I spoke with a former teacher who asked my opinion about one abusive teacher in particular. I know he would be in jail today because of his notoriety.
So you might want to arm your teachers, I certainly do not want to arm mine. The floor pacing whiskey guzzling teacher wanting to go to the front lines was from a totally different school system. And I know of abuse in another swept under the carpet.
Once again, you are looking at a microscopic situation and applying it generally to the whole. That is a fallacy and not the way to go about this at all.
I attended schools in two different states. And It was in both places.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@C_M_ said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
Again, I think some schools are better than others and perhaps you were more fortunate. But neither of us have been outside our circles. So you reflect your experiences and I reflect mine. I'm glad you had it as good as you did.
No, I'm looking at the nation as a whole, not just schools in my area.
I think we would need to grow up in each school system to know the extent of violence. I know of mental abuse, physical, and sexual abuse in the last school system I attended and mental abuse in one before that. Years later I spoke with a former teacher who asked my opinion about one abusive teacher in particular. I know he would be in jail today because of his notoriety.
So you might want to arm your teachers, I certainly do not want to arm mine. The floor pacing whiskey guzzling teacher wanting to go to the front lines was from a totally different school system. And I know of abuse in another swept under the carpet.
Once again, you are looking at a microscopic situation and applying it generally to the whole. That is a fallacy and not the way to go about this at all.
I attended schools in two different states. And It was in both places.
Just like it is in every church you go to. I'm sorry but I just don't believe you.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@C_M_ said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Those are extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population. My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
David,
Your acknowledgment that Dave's example is "extreme exceptions and not representative of the teaching population", on its face; without comment, doesn't include your wife. From my reading, Dave shared a personal experience with a school and a teacher. Accepted, no argument.Secondly, Dave's other point:
Teaching is a stressful job and the many appalling examples of sexual abuse of students and the examples of bad judgment trailing teachers today make me question the wisdom behind even considering arming them.
One can compile news reports of the above. It's not totally without merits. Of course, the statement above can be applicable to Pastors, Priests, Counselors, etc. The realities are higher in some professions than others.
Thirdly, your point:
My wife is a teacher and quite frankly your assumptions based on the extremes are offensive.
All teachers in general, and in particular, public school teachers are not Christians. My remarks and Dave were in reference to those teachers. More so, I don't believe a Christian teacher would buy into carrying a gun into the classroom. To do so demands a new set of obligations and responsibilities; that is, to take life, at a moment's notice of an intruder or suspected one. If the teacher is a pro-lifer, what a contradiction?
So, David, let's stay with the flow of the conversation. Thanks! CM
I did stay with the flow of conversation. He took a rare exception and stated it as a general rule. That's a fallacy.
Again, I think some schools are better than others and perhaps you were more fortunate. But neither of us have been outside our circles. So you reflect your experiences and I reflect mine. I'm glad you had it as good as you did.
No, I'm looking at the nation as a whole, not just schools in my area.
I think we would need to grow up in each school system to know the extent of violence. I know of mental abuse, physical, and sexual abuse in the last school system I attended and mental abuse in one before that. Years later I spoke with a former teacher who asked my opinion about one abusive teacher in particular. I know he would be in jail today because of his notoriety.
So you might want to arm your teachers, I certainly do not want to arm mine. The floor pacing whiskey guzzling teacher wanting to go to the front lines was from a totally different school system. And I know of abuse in another swept under the carpet.
Once again, you are looking at a microscopic situation and applying it generally to the whole. That is a fallacy and not the way to go about this at all.
I attended schools in two different states. And It was in both places.
Just like it is in every church you go to. I'm sorry but I just don't believe you.
I don't think you can afford to believe me. It would take a major revamp on your part if what I say is true.
