Can Your Genes Predict Whether You'll Be a Conservative or a Liberal?
Comments
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
“And he did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.” (Matthew 13:58)Ok that does not say he could not do it. There is a big difference there.
If someone is not atoned for, God cannot justly save or heal them. If so, Christ died for nothing.
That is a totally different subject and has nothing to do with physical healing or miracles.
Not at all. Healing and salvation are the same word in Greek.
Dave that is just bad langauge work. Example:
I saw a bear.
I can no longer bear it.Same exact word, two different senses. Greek works the same way. The sense it is used and also context give the overall meaning, not the word itself.
Isaia includes healing in the atonement.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
“And he did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.” (Matthew 13:58)Ok that does not say he could not do it. There is a big difference there.
If someone is not atoned for, God cannot justly save or heal them. If so, Christ died for nothing.
That is a totally different subject and has nothing to do with physical healing or miracles.
Not at all. Healing and salvation are the same word in Greek.
Dave that is just bad langauge work. Example:
I saw a bear.
I can no longer bear it.Same exact word, two different senses. Greek works the same way. The sense it is used and also context give the overall meaning, not the word itself.
Isaia includes healing in the atonement.
Once again you ignore what was said to you. And then give a view without documentation.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
“And he did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.” (Matthew 13:58)Ok that does not say he could not do it. There is a big difference there.
If someone is not atoned for, God cannot justly save or heal them. If so, Christ died for nothing.
That is a totally different subject and has nothing to do with physical healing or miracles.
Not at all. Healing and salvation are the same word in Greek.
Dave that is just bad langauge work. Example:
I saw a bear.
I can no longer bear it.Same exact word, two different senses. Greek works the same way. The sense it is used and also context give the overall meaning, not the word itself.
Isaia includes healing in the atonement.
Once again you ignore what was said to you. And then give a view without documentation.
You can use the word interchangeably in the salvation or healing passages. They mean the same thing. “But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
Healed = 7495. רָפָא râphâʾ, raw-faw´; or
רָפָה râphâh, raw-faw´; a prim. root; prop. to mend (by stitching), i.e. (fig.) to cure:—cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, × thoroughly, make whole. See 7503.Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 2, p. 110). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
“And he did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.” (Matthew 13:58)Ok that does not say he could not do it. There is a big difference there.
If someone is not atoned for, God cannot justly save or heal them. If so, Christ died for nothing.
That is a totally different subject and has nothing to do with physical healing or miracles.
Not at all. Healing and salvation are the same word in Greek.
Dave that is just bad langauge work. Example:
I saw a bear.
I can no longer bear it.Same exact word, two different senses. Greek works the same way. The sense it is used and also context give the overall meaning, not the word itself.
Isaia includes healing in the atonement.
Once again you ignore what was said to you. And then give a view without documentation.
You can use the word interchangeably in the salvation or healing passages. They mean the same thing. “But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
Healed = 7495. רָפָא râphâʾ, raw-faw´; or
רָפָה râphâh, raw-faw´; a prim. root; prop. to mend (by stitching), i.e. (fig.) to cure:—cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, × thoroughly, make whole. See 7503.Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 2, p. 110). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to.
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Do you pray before going to the doctor?
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@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
There is no just basis for God to save/heal (same word) anyone apart from Christ justifying them.
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
There is no just basis for God to save/heal (same word) anyone apart from Christ justifying them.
Same word doesn't mean anything if the context and senses are different. You are merging things together that don't go together. Poor theological work on your part.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
There is no just basis for God to save/heal (same word) anyone apart from Christ justifying them.
Same word doesn't mean anything if the context and senses are different. You are merging things together that don't go together. Poor theological work on your part.
We should begin a new thread on Divine Healing. But my basic position is that Isaiah includes it in the atonement. James tells us to pray for healing. And numerous people have experienced it apart from medicine. And I have not had a doctor since the 1980s or needed one. God removed sickness from the Jews when obedient and plagued them with it when disobedient.
But, all healing is from God for the sake of the church. God keeps the world alive and healthy for the sake of the church. But it is not of grace that he does this. It is by grace when he heals the elect supernaturally.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
There is no just basis for God to save/heal (same word) anyone apart from Christ justifying them.
Same word doesn't mean anything if the context and senses are different. You are merging things together that don't go together. Poor theological work on your part.
We should begin a new thread on Divine Healing. But my basic position is that Isaiah includes it in the atonement. James tells us to pray for healing. And numerous people have experienced it apart from medicine. And I have not had a doctor since the 1980s or needed one. God removed sickness from the Jews when obedient and plagued them with it when disobedient.
But, all healing is from God for the sake of the church. God keeps the world alive and healthy for the sake of the church. But it is not of grace that he does this. It is by grace when he heals the elect supernaturally.
Please start a new thread then but Is. 53 is not talking about physical healing.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
There is no just basis for God to save/heal (same word) anyone apart from Christ justifying them.
Same word doesn't mean anything if the context and senses are different. You are merging things together that don't go together. Poor theological work on your part.
We should begin a new thread on Divine Healing. But my basic position is that Isaiah includes it in the atonement. James tells us to pray for healing. And numerous people have experienced it apart from medicine. And I have not had a doctor since the 1980s or needed one. God removed sickness from the Jews when obedient and plagued them with it when disobedient.
But, all healing is from God for the sake of the church. God keeps the world alive and healthy for the sake of the church. But it is not of grace that he does this. It is by grace when he heals the elect supernaturally.
Please start a new thread then but Is. 53 is not talking about physical healing.
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
“A Canaanite woman from that area came and cried out, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is horribly demon-possessed!”” (Matthew 15:22)
“But she came and bowed down before him and said, “Lord, help me!” “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs,” he said.” (Matthew 15:25–26)
What is the "children's bread"?
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
There is no just basis for God to save/heal (same word) anyone apart from Christ justifying them.
Same word doesn't mean anything if the context and senses are different. You are merging things together that don't go together. Poor theological work on your part.
We should begin a new thread on Divine Healing. But my basic position is that Isaiah includes it in the atonement. James tells us to pray for healing. And numerous people have experienced it apart from medicine. And I have not had a doctor since the 1980s or needed one. God removed sickness from the Jews when obedient and plagued them with it when disobedient.
But, all healing is from God for the sake of the church. God keeps the world alive and healthy for the sake of the church. But it is not of grace that he does this. It is by grace when he heals the elect supernaturally.
Please start a new thread then but Is. 53 is not talking about physical healing.
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
“A Canaanite woman from that area came and cried out, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is horribly demon-possessed!”” (Matthew 15:22)
“But she came and bowed down before him and said, “Lord, help me!” “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs,” he said.” (Matthew 15:25–26)
What is the "children's bread"?
What in the world does this have to do with what I said? Is. 53:5 is not about physical healing. It is about spiritual healing.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
There is no just basis for God to save/heal (same word) anyone apart from Christ justifying them.
Same word doesn't mean anything if the context and senses are different. You are merging things together that don't go together. Poor theological work on your part.
We should begin a new thread on Divine Healing. But my basic position is that Isaiah includes it in the atonement. James tells us to pray for healing. And numerous people have experienced it apart from medicine. And I have not had a doctor since the 1980s or needed one. God removed sickness from the Jews when obedient and plagued them with it when disobedient.
But, all healing is from God for the sake of the church. God keeps the world alive and healthy for the sake of the church. But it is not of grace that he does this. It is by grace when he heals the elect supernaturally.
Please start a new thread then but Is. 53 is not talking about physical healing.
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
“A Canaanite woman from that area came and cried out, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is horribly demon-possessed!”” (Matthew 15:22)
“But she came and bowed down before him and said, “Lord, help me!” “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs,” he said.” (Matthew 15:25–26)
What is the "children's bread"?
What in the world does this have to do with what I said? Is. 53:5 is not about physical healing. It is about spiritual healing.
You are 1/2 right.
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Do you pray before going to the doctor?What does that have to do with anything???
“Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up—and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness.” (James 5:14–16)
Not sure what this has to do with our topic....
We are way off topic. But since it's my thread I do not mind. but I'm showing that faith healing should become a normal Christian experience again. Mainly in reply to your comment: "Oh no, don't tell me you are one of these that uses that passage to claim physical healing.... There is no indication that is what that passage is referring to."
But that has nothing to do at all with what we were talking about. You keep going on rabbit trails.
I don't recall taking the subject off topic. But recall responding to you in good faith as you presented your ideas.
No I mean where our conversaton was headed. You stated about healing not being possible for those without salvation and atonement, and then started off on a million different trails to where I have no idea what in the world you are talking about and I'm not sure you do either.
I believe the only basis for salvation or healing is in Christ's atonement. If God saved or healed anyone apart from this, Christ died unnecessarily. Perhaps a new thread would open things up more.
I agree with you if you are talking about spiritual healing. But there is no biblical evidence for that requirement of physical healing.
Why did Jesus look for faith in all he healed if faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and a direct result of the atonement?
Do the broken bones of the unsaved heal? And, by the way, when Jesus healed the atonement hadn't taken place yet...
Christ paid for all the sins of the elect from the foundation of the world, else they could not have faith.
Once again, that has nothing to do with physical healing.
There is no just basis for God to save/heal (same word) anyone apart from Christ justifying them.
Same word doesn't mean anything if the context and senses are different. You are merging things together that don't go together. Poor theological work on your part.
We should begin a new thread on Divine Healing. But my basic position is that Isaiah includes it in the atonement. James tells us to pray for healing. And numerous people have experienced it apart from medicine. And I have not had a doctor since the 1980s or needed one. God removed sickness from the Jews when obedient and plagued them with it when disobedient.
But, all healing is from God for the sake of the church. God keeps the world alive and healthy for the sake of the church. But it is not of grace that he does this. It is by grace when he heals the elect supernaturally.
Please start a new thread then but Is. 53 is not talking about physical healing.
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: The chastisement of our peace was upon him; And with his stripes we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
“A Canaanite woman from that area came and cried out, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is horribly demon-possessed!”” (Matthew 15:22)
“But she came and bowed down before him and said, “Lord, help me!” “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs,” he said.” (Matthew 15:25–26)
What is the "children's bread"?
What in the world does this have to do with what I said? Is. 53:5 is not about physical healing. It is about spiritual healing.
You are 1/2 right.
No. I'm 100% right on that. There is no way you get from the context of the passage, or the rest of Scripture for that matter, that it is talking about physical healing.
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If God does not heal, why pray before you go to the doctor?
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@Dave_L said:
If God does not heal, why pray before you go to the doctor?Who said God does not heal?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
If God does not heal, why pray before you go to the doctor?Who said God does not heal?
If you pray before going to the doctor, what is wrong with praying for supernatural healing as James instructs? If God can heal supernaturally apart from the atonement then Christ's death was in vain.
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
If God does not heal, why pray before you go to the doctor?Who said God does not heal?
If you pray before going to the doctor, what is wrong with praying for supernatural healing as James instructs? If God can heal supernaturally apart from the atonement then Christ's death was in vain.
Ok let's get something straight:
- There is nothing wrong with praying for supernatural healing. I have never claimed that there is.
- The atonement has nothing to do with God supernaturally healing someone. Is. 53.5 has NOTHING to do with physical healing.
- Did you read the article I posted to you? https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B160817
