A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics
Comments
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@Mitchell said:
@Dave_L said:
Why so picky? I put them up again for all to see along side of your post without changing pages.I see. In other words, you weren't actually trying to address what I wrote. Rather, you were attempting to addressing another audience. After all, you already know that you had addressed me with those same citations before, and you were already aware that the last time you used them I did not find them persuasive.
I'm only keeping a level playing field for all to see.
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I have no idea what you mean by keeping a level playing field, for one I did not think were playing a game, and two all can see the first time you posted them. Perhaps you simply forgot that you had already posted those citations and we had already discussed them?
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@Mitchell said:
I have no idea what you mean by keeping a level playing field, for one I did not think were playing a game, and two all can see the first time you posted them. Perhaps you simply forgot that you had already posted those citations and we had already discussed them?Simply put, you want to vent your opinions while expecting me to place mine out of sight on another page posted weeks or months ago. My rebuttal to your sentiments remains unchanged. So I keep it on the table with yours for all to consider.
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@Dave_L said:
Simply put, you want to vent your opinions while expecting me to place mine out of sight on another page posted weeks or months ago.No, not all. I was simply hoping for something new and more persuasive from you.
One, the issue this time wasn't the exactly the same as last time, so I a little surprised to see that you simply pasted verbatim what you had already said to me before. -
By 'new' I mean a different or at least slightly different approach or way of communicating the same sentiment. I do not ask for you to change your opinions or views. I, however, I am always interested in seeing strong and persuasive arguments, but I have already seen that one so I was hoping for something fresh.
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@Mitchell said:
By 'new' I mean a different or at least slightly different approach or way of communicating the same sentiment. I do not ask for you to change your opinions or views. I, however, I am always interested in seeing strong and persuasive arguments, but I have already seen that one so I was hoping for something fresh.Until you can counter what I've already posted, why should I bother?
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@Dave_L said:
Until you can counter what I've already posted, why should I bother?One: 'counter'? what are you talking about?
Two: I already replied to your citations months ago (and raised you questions and issue you never bothered to answer).
Three rather than 'venting' or posting my opinions here I simply posted links to my replies to your citations on the former thread where this was already covered.
Four despite the fact that you know neither Hebrew/Aramaic and thus can not read/study the Talmud for yourself I have 'bothered' (taken) the time to reply to you.
Post edited by Mitchell on -
The following is Quoted from "The Real Truth About The Talmud" **by **Gil Student
"There are many lies circulating the internet about the Jewish Talmud. These allegations are supported by "direct quotations" from the Talmud that are frequently wrong or taken out of context. However, most people lack the scholarly background to verify these claims. Most people have no way of knowing that these accusation are false and malicious. What we are attempting is to demonstrate in detail how these accusations are both wrong and intentionally misleading. We are trying to show to the world the real truth about the Talmud."
Check out http://talmud.faithweb.com/ for one individual's time-consuming effort at putting together a resource that explains difficult and misinterpreted passages in the Talmud. My posting of the link is not an automatic endorsement of the website nor the all of the opinions contained therein. however, I do believe that the website is well worth taking the time to read and think over.
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@Mitchell said:
The following is Quoted from "The Real Truth About The Talmud" **by **Gil Student"There are many lies circulating the internet about the Jewish Talmud. These allegations are supported by "direct quotations" from the Talmud that are frequently wrong or taken out of context. However, most people lack the scholarly background to verify these claims. Most people have no way of knowing that these accusation are false and malicious. What we are attempting is to demonstrate in detail how these accusations are both wrong and intentionally misleading. We are trying to show to the world the real truth about the Talmud."
Check out http://talmud.faithweb.com/ for one individual's time-consuming effort at putting together a resource that explains difficult and misinterpreted passages in the Talmud. My posting of the link is not an automatic endorsement of the website nor the all of the opinions contained therein. however, I do believe that the website is well worth taking the time to read and think over.
I'm not talking about the Talmud. I'm reiterating that noted Jewish resources say today's Jews are a mix of people centered around and descending from the Pharisees who escaped Jerusalem's destruction in 70 AD.
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@Dave_L said:
I'm reiterating that ...Jews are a mix of peopleIf this is your point then I find this to be really redundant and boring.
After all, on May 9th, I already noted that
within Judaism there a number of different specific Jewish ethnicities for example (but not limited to):
(1) Ashkennazi (Jews of European descent)
(2) Sephardi (Sephardic)
(3) Teimanim (Yemenite)
(4) Mizrahi (Arab Jews)
(5) Falasha (Beta Israel /Ethiopian Jews)
(6) Cochin Jews / Malabar Jews (Jews of India)
(7) Paradesi Jews (so called White Jews of India)
(8) Kaifeng Jews (The historic community Chinese Jews of Kaifeng China)
https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/4989/#Comment_4989I also said something similar on March 25th (link)
@Mitchell said:
it is common knowledge Judaism is not a race, but rather a religion that groups of various ethnicities across the world follow. For example:There are are
(a) Jews of Ashkenazi (European Jews these are probably those who know a little about)
(b) Jews of Sephardic (Spanish/Portuguese Jews)
(c) Jews of Yemenite
(d) Jews of Mizrahi (Arabi /Egyptian)
(e) Jewish of African heritage(Ethiopian Jews or the Falasha and the Lemba)
(f) Jews of Cochin
(g) Kaifeng Jews (Chinese Jews)
(h) Bene Ephraim (Indian Jews)
(i) Persian Jews
(j) Kurdish Jews
(k) etceteraNow, I doubt very seriously that the vast majority of contemporary Jews are literally(genetically) descendants of the ancient Pharisees, BUT even if they are that does not make modern Jews Pharisees. Of, course there was never at any time anyone form of Judaism. The Karaites for example were(are) Jewish who rejected the Pharisees, the Talmud, and the Rabbis as well.
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@Mitchell said:
@Dave_L said:
I'm reiterating that ...Jews are a mix of peopleIf this is your point then I find this to be really redundant and boring.
After all, on May 9th, I already noted that
within Judaism there a number of different specific Jewish ethnicities for example (but not limited to):
(1) Ashkennazi (Jews of European descent)
(2) Sephardi (Sephardic)
(3) Teimanim (Yemenite)
(4) Mizrahi (Arab Jews)
(5) Falasha (Beta Israel /Ethiopian Jews)
(6) Cochin Jews / Malabar Jews (Jews of India)
(7) Paradesi Jews (so called White Jews of India)
(8) Kaifeng Jews (The historic community Chinese Jews of Kaifeng China)
https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/4989/#Comment_4989I also said something similar on March 25th (link)
@Mitchell said:
it is common knowledge Judaism is not a race, but rather a religion that groups of various ethnicities across the world follow. For example:There are are
(a) Jews of Ashkenazi (European Jews these are probably those who know a little about)
(b) Jews of Sephardic (Spanish/Portuguese Jews)
(c) Jews of Yemenite
(d) Jews of Mizrahi (Arabi /Egyptian)
(e) Jewish of African heritage(Ethiopian Jews or the Falasha and the Lemba)
(f) Jews of Cochin
(g) Kaifeng Jews (Chinese Jews)
(h) Bene Ephraim (Indian Jews)
(i) Persian Jews
(j) Kurdish Jews
(k) etceteraNow, I doubt very seriously that the vast majority of contemporary Jews are literally(genetically) descendants of the ancient Pharisees, BUT even if they are that does not make modern Jews Pharisees. Of, course there was never at any time anyone form of Judaism. The Karaites for example were(are) Jewish who rejected the Pharisees, the Talmud, and the Rabbis as well.
The Jews (Hebrews) were mostly circumcised employees and their families under Abraham. With Ishmael being his only blood relative at the time.
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Ha ha ha .... another cop out "reply" that has basically nothing to do with the post to which the "reply" was made
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@Wolfgang said:
Ha ha ha .... another cop out "reply" that has basically nothing to do with the post to which the "reply" was madeI'm only clarifying my original comment showing that Jews are a false religion with many denominations. They are not a race.
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Dave who on this thread claimed that the Jews were/are a race?
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@Mitchell said:
Dave who on this thread claimed that the Jews were/are a race?Just making sure you and others know. Many think they are a race.
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ONE: In other words, you did not notice that on March 25th I already stated the following
By the way, I also quoted posted this a few posts above on this thread, too!
TWO: Jewish writers typically do not define Jews/Judaism as a race. Here are some examples from around the web:
Is Judaism as religion or a race? This question is frequently asked and is a misleading one. You must choose between one or the other. The truth is that it is neither. (Gil student) (link)
and
The notion that we are a race is destructive.(The Haaretz) (link)
and
But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race. (Jewfaq) (link)
and
there is no Jewish race. Rather, Jews hail from many races just like Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and others. The notion of a “Jewish race” is a fiction perpetrated by anti-Semites. (times of Israel.com/Rabbi Pamela Frydman ) (link)
and
Judaism cannot be classified as a race, because anyone can become a Jew by converting. The convert is considered a Jew in every regard, and his relationship with God is the same level as that of every other Jew. Come to Israel and you will find black Jews, oriental Jews, Indian Jews, etc.(Aish.com/Ask the Rabbi) (link)
and
The Jews are not a race. There is no genetic code passed from either mother or father to the child that makes that child a Jew. Although one cannot convert to become an oriental or a black, one who converts to Judaism becomes a Jew.(Lewis Loflin) (link)
and
Today there are African Jews, Japanese Jews, even Eskimo Jews. It seems difficult to call such a mixture a "race".(Chadad.org/Tzvi Freeman) (link)
THREE: It seems to me that you haven't been actually reading what I wrote, but have instead been either having a knee-jerk reaction to something you mistakenly assume I believe. In other words, I think you are setting up strawmen rather actually addressing what I wrote.
Post edited by Mitchell on -
@Mitchell said:
ONE: In other words, you did not notice that on March 25th I already stated the followingBy the way, I also quoted posted this a few posts above on this thread, too!
TWO: Jewish writers typically do not define Jews/Judaism as a race. Here are some examples from around the web:
Is Judaism as religion or a race? This question is frequently asked and is a misleading one. You must choose between one or the other. The truth is that it is neither. (link)
and
The notion that we are a race is destructive.(link)
and
But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.(link)
and
there is no Jewish race. Rather, Jews hail from many races just like Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and others. The notion of a “Jewish race” is a fiction perpetrated by anti-Semites (link)
and
Judaism cannot be classified as a race, because anyone can become a Jew by converting. The convert is considered a Jew in every regard, and his relationship with God is the same level as that of every other Jew. Come to Israel and you will find black Jews, oriental Jews, Indian Jews, etc.(link)
and
The Jews are not a race. There is no genetic code passed from either mother or father to the child that makes that child a Jew. Although one cannot convert to become an oriental or a black, one who converts to Judaism becomes a Jew. (link)
and
Today there are African Jews, Japanese Jews, even Eskimo Jews. It seems difficult to call such a mixture a "race".(link)
THREE: It seems to me that you haven't been actually reading what I wrote, but have instead been either having a knee-jerk reaction to something you mistakenly assume I believe. In other words, I think you are setting up strawmen rather actually addressing what I wrote.
Thanks for providing this. If it's OK, I'll add it to my notes.
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It's clear for all to see and know: "Judaism is not a race." Lesson learned for today. Thanks, Mitch. CM
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@Dave_L said:
Thanks for providing this. If it's OK, I'll add it to my notes.Yes, of course. And, just to let you (or anyone else) know anything I write share on these forms is free to be quoted or used. From now on I will do my best to clearly link and/or provided citation/reference information about what I quote or share.
@C_M_ said:
It's clear for all to see and know: "Judaism is not a race." Lesson learned for today. Thanks, Mitch. CMSure thing!
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So I've done a little reading the last few days and I see it does not appear that heresy overall has stopped. However, it also appears that there is more of a focus on politics these days than Biblical discussions. You guys miss me? I may come back, I don't know. I went to some other forums but nobody really disagrees with me there so things get boring.
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@dct112685 said:
So I've done a little reading the last few days and I see it does not appear that heresy overall has stopped. However, it also appears that there is more of a focus on politics these days than Biblical discussions. You guys miss me? I may come back, I don't know. I went to some other forums but nobody really disagrees with me there so things get boring.I for one wish you would join us. I'm dry on politics so I don't say too much. But we need more theological input for sure.
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@dct112685 said:
So I've done a little reading the last few days and I see it does not appear that heresy overall has stopped. However, it also appears that there is more of a focus on politics these days than Biblical discussions. You guys miss me? I may come back, I don't know. I went to some other forums but nobody really disagrees with me there so things get boring.David,
What should I say, welcome back to "A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics"? I hope you would fix some of the mess you left behind. You know no one can or will stop you from returning. I would say just leave behind old habits and become the new David, a Reformed-2, with the quality of the substance that matches your words.These forums were designed to accommodate comings and goings, divergent views and people of your caliber (eyes of the beholder). Welcome to the world (forums) you left behind. I hope you bring a new attitude to help move things forward. You have to want and do better, if not, your coming back is a public declaration of your addiction to "A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics".
Now, I understand better what my mother said many years ago: "Never burn the bridge behind you; you may have to cross over it again". Swimming in a "cesspool" can be dangerous for your spiritual and physical health. Unless and until you bring a new attitude, insights, wisdom, patience, respect, and toleration, you will have no value and more of the same. Short of this, one would be justified in asking why. That is, are you returning to be the keeper of the "Cesspool of Heresy" (whatever you mean) or to affirm that you're one more in the Basket of deplorable ("False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics").
Since you're not the owner or the lead administrator (manager) or to cleanse these forums, you are coming to swim in the waste waters of heresies. Until you're willing to revise or renounce your previous statements and attitudes, about the users and these forums, in general, your return will be viewed as suspect and your contributions less than credible.
David, reintroduce yourself and give us a heads-up of what benefits you bring to these forums. Have you come to build up or to further contaminate the "Cesspool of Heresy"? Welcome back, but please, let your respect and divergence augment your contributions. Peace! CM
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@C_M_ said:
@dct112685 said:
So I've done a little reading the last few days and I see it does not appear that heresy overall has stopped. However, it also appears that there is more of a focus on politics these days than Biblical discussions. You guys miss me? I may come back, I don't know. I went to some other forums but nobody really disagrees with me there so things get boring.David,
What should I say, welcome back to "A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics"? I hope you would fix some of the mess you left behind. You know no one can or will stop you from returning. I would say just leave behind old habits and become the new David, a Reformed-2, with the quality of the substance that matches your words.These forums were designed to accommodate comings and goings, divergent views and people of your caliber (eyes of the beholder). Welcome to the world (forums) you left behind. I hope you bring a new attitude to help move things forward. You have to want and do better, if not, your coming back is a public declaration of your addiction to "A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics".
Now, I understand better what my mother said many years ago: "Never burn the bridge behind you; you may have to cross over it again". Swimming in a "cesspool" can be dangerous for your spiritual and physical health. Unless and until you bring a new attitude, insights, wisdom, patience, respect, and toleration, you will have no value and more of the same. Short of this, one would be justified in asking why. That is, are you returning to be the keeper of the "Cesspool of Heresy" (whatever you mean) or to affirm that you're one more in the Basket of deplorable ("False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics").
Since you're not the owner or the lead administrator (manager) or to cleanse these forums, you are coming to swim in the waste waters of heresies. Until you're willing to revise or renounce your previous statements and attitudes, about the users and these forums, in general, your return will be viewed as suspect and your contributions less than credible.
David, reintroduce yourself and give us a heads-up of what benefits you bring to these forums. Have you come to build up or to further contaminate the "Cesspool of Heresy"? Welcome back, but please, let your respect and divergence augment your contributions. Peace! CM
If I come back it will be to fight heresy. How can I recant?
Unless I am convinced in my conscience by Scripture and God that my assessment is wrong I cannot an will not recant for it is neither right nor safe to go against conscience.
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@dct112685 said:
@C_M_ said:
@dct112685 said:
So I've done a little reading the last few days and I see it does not appear that heresy overall has stopped. However, it also appears that there is more of a focus on politics these days than Biblical discussions. You guys miss me? I may come back, I don't know. I went to some other forums but nobody really disagrees with me there so things get boring.David,
What should I say, welcome back to "A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics"? I hope you would fix some of the mess you left behind. You know no one can or will stop you from returning. I would say just leave behind old habits and become the new David, a Reformed-2, with the quality of the substance that matches your words.These forums were designed to accommodate comings and goings, divergent views and people of your caliber (eyes of the beholder). Welcome to the world (forums) you left behind. I hope you bring a new attitude to help move things forward. You have to want and do better, if not, your coming back is a public declaration of your addiction to "A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics".
Now, I understand better what my mother said many years ago: "Never burn the bridge behind you; you may have to cross over it again". Swimming in a "cesspool" can be dangerous for your spiritual and physical health. Unless and until you bring a new attitude, insights, wisdom, patience, respect, and toleration, you will have no value and more of the same. Short of this, one would be justified in asking why. That is, are you returning to be the keeper of the "Cesspool of Heresy" (whatever you mean) or to affirm that you're one more in the Basket of deplorable ("False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics").
Since you're not the owner or the lead administrator (manager) or to cleanse these forums, you are coming to swim in the waste waters of heresies. Until you're willing to revise or renounce your previous statements and attitudes, about the users and these forums, in general, your return will be viewed as suspect and your contributions less than credible.
David, reintroduce yourself and give us a heads-up of what benefits you bring to these forums. Have you come to build up or to further contaminate the "Cesspool of Heresy"? Welcome back, but please, let your respect and divergence augment your contributions. Peace! CM
If I come back it will be to fight heresy. How can I recant?
Unless I am convinced in my conscience by Scripture and God that my assessment is wrong I cannot an will not recant for it is neither right nor safe to go against conscience.
Classic Martin Luther
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@C_M_ said:
@dct112685 said:
So I've done a little reading the last few days and I see it does not appear that heresy overall has stopped. However, it also appears that there is more of a focus on politics these days than Biblical discussions. You guys miss me? I may come back, I don't know. I went to some other forums but nobody really disagrees with me there so things get boring.David,
What should I say, welcome back to "A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics"? I hope you would fix some of the mess you left behind. You know no one can or will stop you from returning. I would say just leave behind old habits and become the new David, a Reformed-2, with the quality of the substance that matches your words.These forums were designed to accommodate comings and goings, divergent views and people of your caliber (eyes of the beholder). Welcome to the world (forums) you left behind. I hope you bring a new attitude to help move things forward. You have to want and do better, if not, your coming back is a public declaration of your addiction to "A Cesspool of Heresy, False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics".
Now, I understand better what my mother said many years ago: "Never burn the bridge behind you; you may have to cross over it again". Swimming in a "cesspool" can be dangerous for your spiritual and physical health. Unless and until you bring a new attitude, insights, wisdom, patience, respect, and toleration, you will have no value and more of the same. Short of this, one would be justified in asking why. That is, are you returning to be the keeper of the "Cesspool of Heresy" (whatever you mean) or to affirm that you're one more in the Basket of deplorable ("False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics").
Since you're not the owner or the lead administrator (manager) or to cleanse these forums, you are coming to swim in the waste waters of heresies. Until you're willing to revise or renounce your previous statements and attitudes, about the users and these forums, in general, your return will be viewed as suspect and your contributions less than credible.
David, reintroduce yourself and give us a heads-up of what benefits you bring to these forums. Have you come to build up or to further contaminate the "Cesspool of Heresy"? Welcome back, but please, let your respect and divergence augment your contributions. Peace! CM
Are you going to be his mom too like you try to be to everyone else? @dct112685 is that one of the reasons you left in the first place? His lectures can be insufferable.
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@Dave_L said:
@dct112685 said:
So I've done a little reading the last few days and I see it does not appear that heresy overall has stopped. However, it also appears that there is more of a focus on politics these days than Biblical discussions. You guys miss me? I may come back, I don't know. I went to some other forums but nobody really disagrees with me there so things get boring.>
I for one wish you would join us. I'm dry on politics so I don't say too much. But we need more theological input for sure.
Dave,
You may be a bit "dry on politics", but that's alright. In CD you are still of value. However, there are many meaty threads to read and to develop. If you don't think so, please be reminded, you're given opened opportunities to create your own threads on any theological or biblical themes. Many of the existing threads can use far more mining than what presently exists. If David T. Jr.'s, purpose in returning to CD to address heresy, I hope it's to address ideas in the most respectful manner and not people.A flag goes up about David's purpose in returning. Is he saying the current CD Users are unable to discern or incapable of addressing heresy? Is he suggesting his knowledge is superior to the current CD Users? In view of his existing thread, do you think he's really able to clean up a "Cesspool of Heresy" when this was his purpose for leaving? Also, who will he turn to for help and support, "False Teachers, Radicals, and Lunatics"?
If the past is any guide, we don't want to repeat some exchanges. There is no qualifying-test one needs to meet to join or return to CD. However, simple Christian basic kindness that each has value and can make a meaningful contribution are much to be desired. I hope a new day and not a return of the past. Remain hopeful. CM
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