Mr. Trump's Presidency: The Beginning of the End or more of the Same?
The raid on Mr. Trump's personal lawyer's office and property, is there an end in sight? Is Mr. Mueller going too far? Can the US President survive this round of searches? Is Mr. Trump his greatest enemy or his enemies are of his own household (e.g. Republicans, Whitehouse staff, Cabinet or some "deep state")? America... CM
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I think it depends on whether or not they find more sex payoffs. But the most unsettling issue to me is how the "Evangelicals" are identifying with Trump, helping to finish off once and for all the already tarnished image of the Church in America.
War has a way of rallying people under a common enemy, and I hate to think things could end up that way solely for the purpose of refocusing public attention. Bolton and all....
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@C_M_ said:
The raid on Mr. Trump's personal lawyer's office and property, is there an end in sight? Is Mr. Mueller going too far? Can the US President survive this round of searches? Is Mr. Trump his greatest enemy or his enemies are of his own household (e.g. Republicans, Whitehouse staff, Cabinet or some "deep state")? America... CMThe president is not going to change. For decades he has been an instinctive, impulsive, emotionally immature, intellectually incurious person. Today he evidences that same collection of weaknesses, which makes him, when coupled with his pathological lying, the most thoroughly unprepared and unqualified person ever to hold the presidency.
In my view, the Mueller probe is closing in on the president and his confidants. No one can predict the details of the investigation's final results, but I am convinced those results will include indictments in addition to those already filed, up to and including members of the president's inner circle (though not the president himself).
Today House Speaker Paul Ryan announced his decision not to seek re-election, increasing the odds, it seems to me, of Democrats' retaking the House. As of now, I think it's marginally likely that the Dems will also retake the Senate. The result? Beginning in January 2019, FAR more accountability on the ethical cesspool that is the Trump administration, and on the president himself.
A new day is coming.
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What will they call this one? "Fornigate"?
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@Dave_L said:
What will they call this one? "Fornigate"?An excellent choice, Dave, but the Trump administration's scandals are so varied and far-reaching, I doubt any single word can do justice to their injustice.
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From an article by Peter Koenig
On the other side of the Mediterranean is Syria. A vast and noble country, Syria, with a leader who truly loves his people and country, a leader who has despite a foreign induced war – not civil war – a proxy war, instigated and funded by Washington and its vassal allies in Europe and the Middle East; Syria, a highly educated socialist country that has shared the benefit of her resources, free education, free medical services, free basic infrastructure, with her people. This Syria must fall. Such strength cannot be tolerated by the all-dominating west. Like Iraq and Libya, also socialist countries once-upon-a-time, and like Syria, secular Muslim nations, sharing their countries wealth with the people, such countries must fall.
According to Pentagon planners and those Zion-neofascist thinktanks that designed the PNAC (Plan for a New American Century), as the chief instrument of US foreign policy, we know since Wesley Clark, the former Supreme Allied commander and Chief of NATO in Europe (1997-2000) talked to Democracy Now in 2007 (
), saying that within 5 years seven countries must fall, one of them is Syria. – Since 2011, the Syrian people have been bombarded by US and NATO and Saudi funded terrorists, causing tens of thousands of deaths, and millions of refugees. Now, even more blatantly, US bases are vying to occupying the northern third of Syria, totally illegally, but nobody says beep. Not even the UN.The recent fake gas attack on Douma outside of Damascus, has allegedly killed 80 to 120 people, mostly women and children. Of course, that sells best in the propaganda theatre – women and children. Strangely, like last time the infamous White Helmets discovered the gas victims, including a gas canister-like bomb laying on a bed, having been shot through the roof of a house… a totally and unprofessionally staged event. As Russian military quickly discovered and reported. They called on an independent investigation, one that could not be bought and corrupted by Washington. President Assad invited a team of investigators to inspect the scene.
Instead of heeding this invitation, Trump, the bully, calls Mr. Assad an “animal” and a “monster”, twittering his brainless aggressions throughout the world. Tell you what, Mr. Trump, Bashar al-Assad is a far better human being than you are a monster. You and your dark handlers don’t even deserve being called human. Mr. Assad has regard and respect for his people, attempts to protect them and has so far succeeded with the help of Russia, Iran and Hezbollah, recovering the last bits of Syrian territory from the terrorist, except of course, the northern part, where the chief terrorist and the world’s only rogue state has itself installed, the US of A. – Why in the world would Mr. Assad choose to gas his own people? Especially, when he is winning the war? – People, ask yourself, cui bono (who benefits?) and the answer is simple: The western aggressors, who seek a reason to mass bomb Syria into even more rubble, causing even more death and destitution. That’s who.
While you, Donald, and those monsters that direct you from behind the scenes, have no, but absolutely no respect for your people, for any people on this globe, for that matter, not even for your kind, for your greed-no-end kind of elite, as you bring the world to the brink of an all-destructive, all killing annihilating war.
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@Wolfgang said:
From an article by Peter KoenigOn the other side of the Mediterranean is Syria. A vast and noble country, Syria, with a leader who truly loves his people and country, a leader who has despite a foreign induced war – not civil war – a proxy war, instigated and funded by Washington and its vassal allies in Europe and the Middle East; Syria, a highly educated socialist country that has shared the benefit of her resources, free education, free medical services, free basic infrastructure, with her people. This Syria must fall. Such strength cannot be tolerated by the all-dominating west. Like Iraq and Libya, also socialist countries once-upon-a-time, and like Syria, secular Muslim nations, sharing their countries wealth with the people, such countries must fall.
According to Pentagon planners and those Zion-neofascist thinktanks that designed the PNAC (Plan for a New American Century), as the chief instrument of US foreign policy, we know since Wesley Clark, the former Supreme Allied commander and Chief of NATO in Europe (1997-2000) talked to Democracy Now in 2007 (
), saying that within 5 years seven countries must fall, one of them is Syria. – Since 2011, the Syrian people have been bombarded by US and NATO and Saudi funded terrorists, causing tens of thousands of deaths, and millions of refugees. Now, even more blatantly, US bases are vying to occupying the northern third of Syria, totally illegally, but nobody says beep. Not even the UN.The recent fake gas attack on Douma outside of Damascus, has allegedly killed 80 to 120 people, mostly women and children. Of course, that sells best in the propaganda theatre – women and children. Strangely, like last time the infamous White Helmets discovered the gas victims, including a gas canister-like bomb laying on a bed, having been shot through the roof of a house… a totally and unprofessionally staged event. As Russian military quickly discovered and reported. They called on an independent investigation, one that could not be bought and corrupted by Washington. President Assad invited a team of investigators to inspect the scene.
Instead of heeding this invitation, Trump, the bully, calls Mr. Assad an “animal” and a “monster”, twittering his brainless aggressions throughout the world. Tell you what, Mr. Trump, Bashar al-Assad is a far better human being than you are a monster. You and your dark handlers don’t even deserve being called human. Mr. Assad has regard and respect for his people, attempts to protect them and has so far succeeded with the help of Russia, Iran and Hezbollah, recovering the last bits of Syrian territory from the terrorist, except of course, the northern part, where the chief terrorist and the world’s only rogue state has itself installed, the US of A. – Why in the world would Mr. Assad choose to gas his own people? Especially, when he is winning the war? – People, ask yourself, cui bono (who benefits?) and the answer is simple: The western aggressors, who seek a reason to mass bomb Syria into even more rubble, causing even more death and destitution. That’s who.
While you, Donald, and those monsters that direct you from behind the scenes, have no, but absolutely no respect for your people, for any people on this globe, for that matter, not even for your kind, for your greed-no-end kind of elite, as you bring the world to the brink of an all-destructive, all killing annihilating war.
I think one way we can contribute to lessening this evil is to continue speaking out against "Christian" involvement in violence.
There is an entire segment in "Evangelical Christendom" that craves nuclear war in the Middle East in order to hasten Jesus' return.
And I believe many of these are the hardcore neocon Zionists who support any elected official or foreign policy that will bring it about.
And I think some of the most respected American seminaries and bible colleges share in the innocent bloodshed that comes from this. Teaching a false eschatology based on a forced literal interpretation of biblical symbolism.
Of course, if voting for the least amount of innocent bloodshed over-all becomes the priority. The Christian vote might help turn things around. But for now these are an enormous part of the problem.
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President Trump is in over his head. It was so, from the beginning. He, unfortunately, is going down like a lid candle, without perfume. He's out of control with very little party (Republican) checks and balances. He governs like a child at the control panel of an online nuclear plant. America, America, are you having voters remorse? CM
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@C_M_ said:
President Trump is in over his head. It was so, from the beginning. He, unfortunately, is going down like a lid candle, without perfume. He's out of control with very little party (Republican) checks and balances. He governs like a child at the control panel of an online nuclear plant. America, America, are you having voters remorse? CMHe seems to not be governing anymore at all ... you now have those governing who were going to be governing from the start if their candidate Hillary had won the election
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Firing Rosenstein Won’t Save Trump
The move would come at a high political cost, and have little effect on the actual investigation.
Paul Rosenzweig1:39 PM ET
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/firing-rosenstein/557891/The move would come at a high political cost, and have little effect on the actual investigation.
Let’s be blunt. Given what we know about President Trump’s impulsive nature, there are good odds that sometime soon he will fire the special counsel, Robert Mueller, or perhaps the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein (who, because Attorney General Jeff Sessions is recused, is currently supervising the Mueller investigation as acting attorney general). No doubt some of his advisers will convince him that this will help avoid scrutiny of his conduct. But that’s mostly wrong.
First, think about the situation in which Trump orders that Mueller be fired. Someone has to do it—and probably Rosenstein would refuse and be fired too. Eventually, though, some senior Trump loyalist in the department would pull the trigger and Mueller would be gone.
What happens then?
Well, actually, there are three possibilities: First, whoever fires Mueller might eventually just replace him with someone to finish the investigation. After all, there are several indictments outstanding that need to be tried; plea agreements that need to be finalized; and open investigative leads. In the “normal” course of business, if the lead prosecutor leaves an investigation, he just gets replaced. That might happen here—especially since the political pressure to replace Mueller would be fairly intense. This, after all, is what happened after President Richard Nixon fired special prosecutor Archibald Cox—Leon Jaworski was appointed.
Second, since the investigation would still be open, we might see the investigation continue but without a special counsel. That’s partially what has already happened with respect to the investigation of Trump’s attorney, Michael Cohen. That investigation is now being handled by the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Southern District of New York—a regular unit of the Department of Justice. If Mueller were fired, the ongoing pieces of his investigation (into Manafort, Russian social-media interference, etc.) could also get farmed out to various U.S. attorneys’, or a Department of Justice, litigating division to pursue. If that happened, the investigations might lose some coordination, but they would continue apace.
Finally, and most problematically, whoever fired Mueller could also order that the investigation be closed out. On the merits, this would be a dubious act, in the sense that there is no actual basis in fact for shutting the investigation down. In “real life,” investigations are closed only when their original predication is disproved or when they’ve reached an investigative dead end and can go no further; or, sometimes, when the resources necessary to continue exceed the apparent significance of the crimes under investigation. Whoever obeyed Trump’s order to fire Mueller might also pull the political trigger and shut down the investigation and brave the political storm that would follow. CM
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I think if people would vote "the least amount of innocent bloodshed" instead of voting their "ticket". America might move in the right direction. Back in the day, I would always vote "pro-life". But this also meant the least amount of death overall. War kills far more than abortion. So in view of this I would vote for whoever is under the least control of the Neocons.
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Great pressure is upon the American President:
1. The women lawsuits.
2. Possible a "love child."
3. Personal Lawyer raided.
4. Trade war
5. Syrian response without a plan or strategy.
6. He's frightened and unhinged
7. The release of Comey's Book.He needs help or be removed, immediately. Regardless, the countdown has begun. The Republicans want Mr. Trump out, like yesterday. Mr. Trump is petty, undisciplined and unfocused. Is American in danger?
On the other hand, if American think Trump is bad, beware America, Pence is worst. It's not so much his character, his policies. America is between a rock and a hard place. CM
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@C_M_ said:
Great pressure is upon the American President:And you are very happy about that ?
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Excuse me? I don't recall stating, attaching a happy face or implying such. I reflected current news reports, many of which is Mr. Trump's own doing. A lot of what America is experiencing today was said or predicted before the 2016 elections.
I stated it to reinforce the truth that counsel of the past not taken has present-day realities and consequences. Besides, some have said Mr. Trump is what they voted and wanted. This desired choice is costing much pain for many and lives of others.
The second reason for stating the above is to make clear that American voters are not to be single-issue voters. Character matters, not political agendas! One should never suspend with independent facts, reality, and common sense before voting. Be attentive to the message received, not the vessel (even if it's from a "Democrat").
The third reason, all of us (at CD/around the world) don't have to eat a whole cow to know we have eaten beef. What one sampled in the campaign is what one would have after the election. In fact, Mr. Trump was bold and brazen about his dealings and behavior before the election. The old folks in the early years said, "if you make your bed hard, you have to lie in it."
The fourth reason, to give a heads-up to American Voters, to take greater care when voting. It's a serious responsibility. Namely, one share in the outcome and consequences of the one you placed into office. America, pray God will deliver you from the errors of your ways.
I personally questioned why Mr. Trump wants to drop bombs on behalf of the Syrian people? He wouldn't allow some of them to come to America, because of his "ban." One gives time, blood and treasurer to a cause or people you truly care about. He wants to kill the Syrian people, but not Russians or Iranians. A child in video-wargames has a better strategy than the American President in dealing with lives and consequences.
Any more questions, Mr. Wolfgang? CM
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What I'm very happy about, Wolfgang, is that our system, however flawed and inelegant, is working. That means our president WILL ultimately be held accountable for his failures and misconduct.
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@Bill_Coley said:
What I'm very happy about, Wolfgang, is that our system, however flawed and inelegant, is working. That means our president WILL ultimately be held accountable for his failures and misconduct.
Even with one more distraction of Mr. Trump by pardoning Scooter Libby for perjury in a CIA leak case. What about all the people in prison, many who are there because of "bad lawyers?" CM
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@C_M_ said:
@Bill_Coley said:
What I'm very happy about, Wolfgang, is that our system, however flawed and inelegant, is working. That means our president WILL ultimately be held accountable for his failures and misconduct.
Even with one more distraction of Mr. Trump by pardoning Scooter Libby for perjury in a CIA leak case. What about all the people in prison, many who are there because of "bad lawyers?" CM
The most common explanation of today's pardon is that the president is sending a message to his minions - especially Paul Manafort - that he will pardon them after they are convicted.
Another aspect of the pardon might be to undo a conviction won by a special prosecutor selected by James Comey, the former FBI director so much in the news now because of his forthcoming book.
Over the protests of Dick Cheney, George W. Bush commuted Libby's sentence, but refused to pardon him, so serious were Libby's crimes. Today, many years later, Trump issues a pardon.
Bottom line: Today's pardon is a sham and a disgrace, much like the president who issued it.
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WH response to Russia sanctions confusion: Blame Nikki Haley
Nikki Haley: I don't get confused
Washington (CNN)A consensus emerged Tuesday at the White House and Mar-a-Lago about how to clean up the administration's suddenly muddled plans to crack down on Russia: Blame Nikki Haley.Several administration officials said the US ambassador to the United Nations got ahead of President Donald Trump's decision-making when she hit the Sunday talk show circuit and said the US would level new sanctions the next day targeting Russian companies that facilitated the Syrian regime's chemical weapons program. The sanctions have yet to come.
"She got ahead of the curve," National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow told reporters on Tuesday near the President's Florida estate, a day after a report claiming Trump "put the brakes" on plans for new Russia sanctions. "She's done a great job, she's a very effective ambassador. There might have been some momentary confusion about that."
Haley struck back with a stunning statement later in the day that opened a new rift in the administration and raised questions about the White House's explanation of her comments."With all due respect, I don't get confused," she said in a statement obtained by CNN's Jake Tapper.
A White House official said Kudlow apologized to Haley for saying that she might have been confused.
But he wasn't alone in that sentiment. A day earlier, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders responded to reports about Haley's comments by saying the administration was "considering additional sanctions on Russia," but that a decision hadn't yet been made.
MORE OF THE SAME, TOWARD THE END.-- CM
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well well well ... the string pullers behind the Trump puppet scene apparently got their strings a little muddled up ... and the wrong puppet did the wrong move at the wrong time. No big deal, now a few other things are thrown in the pot and in a few days, the empire's threats will be heard again in full accord from all puppets
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The astounding, unprecedented success of Mr. Donald Trump, the choice of Americans, leader of a great nation:
Old but reliable and Good:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-year-one-making-america-great/Booming Economy:
http://www.oann.com/gop-senators-credit-president-trump-with-booming-economy/Unwrecking the Clinton and Obama's trash heap:
https://www.bustle.com/p/what-did-obama-pass-trump-overturn-its-a-lot-5506775
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More "Fool's gold". Nice graphics, but the jury is still out. Non-Trump Voters prefer moral, substance, order and compassion for the less fortunate. Don't take my word alone.
Oh, please read something of substance:
Tillerson warns of ethical crisis among U.S. leaders in a speech.
QUINT FORGEY05/16/2018 01:48 PM EDT
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/16/rex-tillerson-speech-ethics-591876
Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Wednesday appeared to offer an implicit rebuke of his old boss, as he warned of a "growing crisis in ethics and integrity" during a commencement address at the Virginia Military Institute.
“As I reflect upon the state of our American democracy, I observe a growing crisis in ethics and integrity,” Tillerson told the graduates. “If we do not as Americans confront the crisis of ethics and integrity in our society and among our leaders in both public and private sector — and regrettably, at times, even the non-profit sector — then American democracy, as we know it, is entering its twilight years.”
The ex-diplomat — who did not mention President Donald Trump by name — also delivered a pointed commentary on the importance of truth in political discourse, and insisted that “a common set of facts” was essential to maintaining a free society.
In January 2017, counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway memorably defended former White House press secretary Sean Spicer’s misrepresentation of the crowd size at the president's inauguration, saying Spicer “gave alternative facts.” Trump himself has been the target of numerous fact checks, with the Washington Post reporting on May 1 that the president had made 3,001 false or misleading claims since taking office.
“If our leaders seek to conceal the truth, or we as people become accepting of alternative realities that are no longer grounded in facts, then we as American citizens are on a pathway to relinquishing our freedom,” **Tillerson said. **“A responsibility of every American citizen to each other is to preserve and protect our freedom by recognizing what truth is and is not, what a fact is and is not, and begin by holding ourselves accountable to truthfulness, and demand our pursuit of America's future be fact-based.”
Not impressed. Even scraps of edible food can be found on a garbage heap. CM
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@C_M_ said:
More "Fool's gold". Nice graphics, but the jury is still out. Non-Trump Voters prefer moral, substance, order and compassion for the less fortunate. Don't take my word alone.Oh, please read something of substance:
Tillerson warns of ethical crisis among U.S. leaders in a speech.
QUINT FORGEY05/16/2018 01:48 PM EDT
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/16/rex-tillerson-speech-ethics-591876
Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Wednesday appeared to offer an implicit rebuke of his old boss, as he warned of a "growing crisis in ethics and integrity" during a commencement address at the Virginia Military Institute.
“As I reflect upon the state of our American democracy, I observe a growing crisis in ethics and integrity,” Tillerson told the graduates. “If we do not as Americans confront the crisis of ethics and integrity in our society and among our leaders in both public and private sector — and regrettably, at times, even the non-profit sector — then American democracy, as we know it, is entering its twilight years.”
The ex-diplomat — who did not mention President Donald Trump by name — also delivered a pointed commentary on the importance of truth in political discourse, and insisted that “a common set of facts” was essential to maintaining a free society.
In January 2017, counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway memorably defended former White House press secretary Sean Spicer’s misrepresentation of the crowd size at the president's inauguration, saying Spicer “gave alternative facts.” Trump himself has been the target of numerous fact checks, with the Washington Post reporting on May 1 that the president had made 3,001 false or misleading claims since taking office.
“If our leaders seek to conceal the truth, or we as people become accepting of alternative realities that are no longer grounded in facts, then we as American citizens are on a pathway to relinquishing our freedom,” **Tillerson said. **“A responsibility of every American citizen to each other is to preserve and protect our freedom by recognizing what truth is and is not, what a fact is and is not, and begin by holding ourselves accountable to truthfulness, and demand our pursuit of America's future be fact-based.”
Not impressed. Even scraps of edible food can be found on a garbage heap. CM
I notice that he did not mention the President or the Administration. My guess is that he was probably talking about people like Hilary Clinton and James Comey.
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@reformed said:
I notice that he did not mention the President or the Administration. My guess is that he was probably talking about people like Hilary Clinton and James Comey.Oh, please, Reformed, get your head out of the sand!
"Trump himself has been the target of numerous fact checks, with the Washington Post reporting on May 1 that the president had made 3,001 false or misleading claims since taking office."
Why would Trump be excluded from Rex Tillerson's remarks? Love Mr. Trump, but please don't suspend with common sense and reality. At the least, all three [Trump, Hilary Clinton, and James Comey] and then some. The American President is "in over his head". It's unfortunate, the little good Mr. Trump has done is evil spoken of. The only hope is in looking forward. If the past is any indication, his days are numbered. CM
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@reformed said:
I notice that he did not mention the President or the Administration. My guess is that he was probably talking about people like Hilary Clinton and James Comey.There is only one president and one administration that could have prompted Tillerson's comments about the importance of truthful leaders: Donald Trump and his administration. NO president in American history has lied more often about more things than has Trump.
I am repulsed by the president's mendacity, reformed. Are you? Within the last week we learned that the president lied when recently, aboard Air Force One, he claimed not to know anything about the $130,000 paid to Stormy Daniels (when in fact he did know), and that he did not know where Michael Cohen got the money to pay her (when in fact Cohen was reimbursed by the president himself).
And this week we learned that last year the president signed, under penalty of perjury, a Federal Elections Commission report that made no mention of the $130,000 he reimbursed to Michael Cohen, a report that should have included the $130,000. ANYONE other than a president concealing such a transaction from the FEC - a transaction which would NEVER have been made public were it not for the superb journalism of what he calls the "fake news media" - would face the real possibility of felony prosecution for such lying.
Donald Trump is a serial, pathological liar, a liar of proportions the U.S. has NEVER before experienced in one of its presidents. Rex Tillerson could only have been talking about him.
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@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said:
I notice that he did not mention the President or the Administration. My guess is that he was probably talking about people like Hilary Clinton and James Comey.There is only one president and one administration that could have prompted Tillerson's comments about the importance of truthful leaders: Donald Trump and his administration. NO president in American history has lied more often about more things than has Trump.
I see we live in two very different worlds.
And this week we learned that last year the president signed, under penalty of perjury, a Federal Elections Commission report that made no mention of the $130,000 he reimbursed to Michael Cohen, a report that should have included the $130,000. ANYONE other than a president concealing such a transaction from the FEC - a transaction which would NEVER have been made public were it not for the superb journalism of what he calls the "fake news media" - would face the real possibility of felony prosecution for such lying.
Why should a private matter be included in the FEC report?
Donald Trump is a serial, pathological liar, a liar of proportions the U.S. has NEVER before experienced in one of its presidents. Rex Tillerson could only have been talking about him.
Obama lied quite a bit actually (don't even get me started on the Clintons). And I don't think Tillerson was talking about the Administration at all.
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Mr. Trump is an illegitimate President. Watch your news reports. Russia interfered with the elections in favor of Mr. Trump (proven). He is just like those he claimed crossed the border illegally. Today he called them "animals." Should he be called the same, given he secured the presidency with the aid of a foreign government?
Clinton cheated on his wife. Mr. Trump cheated on his wife and cheated the American people. Technically, he should be charged with treason with his multiple connections with Russia. CM
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@reformed said:
I see we live in two very different worlds.I am not aware of ANY objective assessment of presidential mendacity that concludes Trump's lying has been on par with or less frequent than previous presidents'. HERE, for example, is a NY Times comparison from December 2017 that concludes Trump told six times more "bald-faced" lies in his first ten months in office than Obama did in his entire eight years.
But I am open to supporting evidence from your world, reformed. Please provide links to sources that have quantitatively compared Trump's severity of lying favorably to past presidents.
Why should a private matter be included in the FEC report?
The payment to Daniels wasn't made in 2011, when the affair happened, or in 2012, or in 2013, or in 2014, or in 2015. It was made in late October 2016 by Donald Trump's "fixer." What could have prompted a "fixer" payment to Daniels in late October 2016 that wouldn't have prompted a payment to her in the five previous years? Oh, that's right: An election!!
By federal law, if the $130,000 payment was in any way intended to influence the result of the election that was held a few days after the payment, then it had to be reported to the FEC. Do you contend that Trump paid her $130,000 in October 2016, and that the election's approach was pure coincidence? That he would have paid her in October 2016 even if he had been a private citizen?
Obama lied quite a bit actually (don't even get me started on the Clintons). And I don't think Tillerson was talking about the Administration at all.
Whom do you propose Tillerson was talking about? Trump - the man Tillerson called a "moron," the one who forced his chief of staff to fire him because he couldn't do it himself - or some other president?
As for Obama's and Clintons' lying, I respect your talking points, but talking points don't prove themselves. Please provide links to quantitative comparisons of Trump's mendacity and his predecessors'. I am aware of no serious such study that has concluded anything other than that Donald Trump lies more often than any president on record.
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@C_M_ said:
Mr. Trump is an illegitimate President. Watch your news reports. Russia interfered with the elections in favor of Mr. Trump (proven). He is just like those he claimed crossed the border illegally. Today he called them "animals." Should he be called the same, given he secured the presidency with the aid of a foreign government?He is an illegitimate President? How so? Last I checked, the American people still voted him into office and he was certified by the electors. That makes him legitimate.
Clinton cheated on his wife. Mr. Trump cheated on his wife and cheated the American people. Technically, he should be charged with treason with his multiple connections with Russia. CM
Clinton did it in office, that's different. And what treasonous act did he actually commit? Good luck proving that one.
@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said
Why should a private matter be included in the FEC report?The payment to Daniels wasn't made in 2011, when the affair happened, or in 2012, or in 2013, or in 2014, or in 2015. It was made in late October 2016 by Donald Trump's "fixer." What could have prompted a "fixer" payment to Daniels in late October 2016 that wouldn't have prompted a payment to her in the five previous years? Oh, that's right: An election!!
By federal law, if the $130,000 payment was in any way intended to influence the result of the election that was held a few days after the payment, then it had to be reported to the FEC. Do you contend that Trump paid her $130,000 in October 2016, and that the election's approach was pure coincidence? That he would have paid her in October 2016 even if he had been a private citizen?
That's not for me to answer, that's for the President to answer.
Obama lied quite a bit actually (don't even get me started on the Clintons). And I don't think Tillerson was talking about the Administration at all.
Whom do you propose Tillerson was talking about? Trump - the man Tillerson called a "moron," the one who forced his chief of staff to fire him because he couldn't do it himself - or some other president?
As for Obama's and Clintons' lying, I respect your talking points, but talking points don't prove themselves. Please provide links to quantitative comparisons of Trump's mendacity and his predecessors'. I am aware of no serious such study that has concluded anything other than that Donald Trump lies more often than any president on record.
That's not my point, my point is Obama lied pretty blatantly and maliciously to get legislation passed, Clinton lied about what happened in Benghazi repeatedly and also broke the law with her email scandal.
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@reformed said:
He is an illegitimate President? How so? Last I checked, the American people still voted him into office and he was certified by the electors. That makes him legitimate.FWIW, I believe Donald Trump is the duly-elected and legitimate president of the United States... who is bringing shame, disgrace, division, and chaos to office and to the nation.
That's not for me to answer, that's for the President to answer.
People suspected of criminal activity in our country - including presidents - have a say, but not the ONLY say, in whether their actions were criminal. Our justice system, including the FEC, will decide whether Mr Trump broke the law by not reporting his reimbursement to Cohen on last year's form.
That's not my point, my point is Obama lied pretty blatantly and maliciously to get legislation passed, Clinton lied about what happened in Benghazi repeatedly and also broke the law with her email scandal.
You seem to be referring to a small set of Obama "lies" during his selling of the Affordable Care Act ("You can keep your doctor;" "Premiums will go down by $2,500") Trump lied more than that before his first inauguration ball dance with Melania.
It remains an uncontested fact that Donald Trump has lied more often than any president on record. As a follower of Jesus who values truth-telling, I am outraged by that fact. Are you? Are you as outraged by the hundreds/thousands of lies Donald Trump has told as you were by "You can keep your doctor"?
Hillary Clinton was cleared of wrongdoing in the Benghazi matter by seven or eight congressional investigations, and the FBI formally decided not to prosecute her for her use of email. Bill Clinton was fined, lost his law license, and was impeached-but-not-removed-from-office for his lying. You're welcome to conclude differently than Congress, its committees, and the FBI, but our system relies on those investigative authorities more than it does on political partisans such as you and I.
You didn't address my Tillerson question. If he wasn't talking about Trump, whom WAS he talking about?
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@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said:
He is an illegitimate President? How so? Last I checked, the American people still voted him into office and he was certified by the electors. That makes him legitimate.FWIW, I believe Donald Trump is the duly-elected and legitimate president of the United States... who is bringing shame, disgrace, division, and chaos to office and to the nation.
That's not for me to answer, that's for the President to answer.
People suspected of criminal activity in our country - including presidents - have a say, but not the ONLY say, in whether their actions were criminal. Our justice system, including the FEC, will decide whether Mr Trump broke the law by not reporting his reimbursement to Cohen on last year's form.
That's not my point, my point is Obama lied pretty blatantly and maliciously to get legislation passed, Clinton lied about what happened in Benghazi repeatedly and also broke the law with her email scandal.
You seem to be referring to a small set of Obama "lies" during his selling of the Affordable Care Act ("You can keep your doctor;" "Premiums will go down by $2,500") Trump lied more than that before his first inauguration ball dance with Melania.
It remains an uncontested fact that Donald Trump has lied more often than any president on record. As a follower of Jesus who values truth-telling, I am outraged by that fact. Are you? Are you as outraged by the hundreds/thousands of lies Donald Trump has told as you were by "You can keep your doctor"?
Hillary Clinton was cleared of wrongdoing in the Benghazi matter by seven or eight congressional investigations, and the FBI formally decided not to prosecute her for her use of email. Bill Clinton was fined, lost his law license, and was impeached-but-not-removed-from-office for his lying. You're welcome to conclude differently than Congress, its committees, and the FBI, but our system relies on those investigative authorities more than it does on political partisans such as you and I.
You didn't address my Tillerson question. If he wasn't talking about Trump, whom WAS he talking about?
I was pretty clear in my initial post who I believe he was talking about. People like Clinton, Comey, McCabe, etc.
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