Vengeance In The Bible: Whose Job Is It Anyway?
There are a number of questions below I would like you to consider from a biblical perspective with practical suggestions for today's society. Many people are frightened, hurt and angry. This, unfortunately, includes Christians. They are buying guns and even joined the NRA.
1. Is there ever a time for a Christian to "get even?" If so, when and how?
2. Doesn't the Bible teaches "an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth?"
3. Should Christians let people walk all over them?
4. What about examples in the Bible when God directed a people to slay another group? Isn't that revenge?
5. Is there a difference of vengeance in the OT and the NT?
6. Is there a difference in reflexive response and vengeance?
7. In a world of crime, hurt and bullying, how do people in general and Christians in particular, respond to a deep hurt or loss?
Comments
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First, you need to make sure you understand the difference between vengeance and defense.
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@C_M_ said:
There are a number of questions below I would like you to consider from a biblical perspective with practical suggestions for today's society. Many people are frightened, hurt and angry. This, unfortunately, includes Christians. They are buying guns and even joined the NRA.
1. Is there ever a time for a Christian to "get even?" If so, when and how?“Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” (Romans 12:21) (NET)
- Doesn't the Bible teaches "an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth?"
The Ten Commandments were primarily for controlling wicked unbelievers in the Israeli church/state.
“realizing that law is not intended for a righteous person, but for lawless and rebellious people, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers—in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching.” (1 Timothy 1:9–10) (NET)
- Should Christians let people walk all over them?
All of the believers in the NT ran and hid from persecution (abuse). They did not defend themselves using violence, only rhetoric. They valued human life more than money and property.
- What about examples in the Bible when God directed a people to slay another group? Isn't that revenge?
The OT genocide and violence is the same as today when God moves one nation against another in judgement. But Jesus' Kingdom to which we belong is not of this world. And because of this we (his servants) do not fight.
- Is there a difference of vengeance in the OT and the NT?
All vengeance belongs to God. And we sin, usurping his position when we take it upon ourselves.
- Is there a difference in reflexive response and vengeance?
Vengeance is punishment. And we are to forgive. So we sin when practicing vengeance.
- In a world of crime, hurt and bullying, how do people in general and Christians in particular, respond to a deep hurt or loss?
People look at their problems and respond directly to them as they think best. But the more biblically learned will look through their problems and see God, who controls all things. And so any hatred towards those causing their misery should instead be pity. Since God is obviously turning them over to their own sins. And we should seek their forgiveness and repentance as though we were them.
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@reformed said:
First, you need to make sure you understand the difference between vengeance and defense.I do. What stated is by design. CM
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Then why do you bring up the NRA in your OP?
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- It's not the only thing.
- NRA and guns are some people's means to "so-called" protection and revenge.
- Some people claimed that's why the boy shot students recently.
- The OP includes MUCH and it is bigger than the NRA. Let's not get lost.
- The OP is "Vengeance In The Bible: Whose Job Is It Anyway?"
There are seven questions to consider... CM
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I understand.
- NRA and guns are some people's means to "so-called" protection and revenge.
But that is not what the NRA stands for, defense yes, revenge no. And the NRA itself isn't a means to anything.
- Some people claimed that's why the boy shot students recently.
Yes, but that has nothing to do with the NRA.
- The OP includes MUCH and it is bigger than the NRA. Let's not get lost.
Agreed, but it seems as though you flippantly threw them in there for no reason which is why I made the distinction. The NRA does not support vengeance.
- The OP is "Vengeance In The Bible: Whose Job Is It Anyway?"
Yes I know.
There are seven questions to consider... CM
Yep, just wanted to make sure we are all on the same page without throwing organizations under the bus because of false premises.
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Reformed,
You're majoring in minors. You don't need to defend the NRA because you can't. Their behavior speaks for themselves.When will you get to the OP is "Vengeance In The Bible: Whose Job Is It Anyway? That's the main thing. However, if you don't have a position or understanding of the subject matter, just say so. I will understand.
It's alarming that you would try to protect the NRA to sharing light on a biblical teaching and principle of vengeance. Is protecting the NRA Christian's new commission to the Great Commission (Matt 28:18-20)? CM
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@C_M_ said:
Reformed,
You're majoring in minors. You don't need to defend the NRA because you can't. Their behavior speaks for themselves.What behavior is that? I think you are just regurgitating liberal talking points.
When will you get to the OP is "Vengeance In The Bible: Whose Job Is It Anyway? That's the main thing. However, if you don't have a position or understanding of the subject matter, just say so. I will understand.
Actually, you included the NRA in the OP.
It's alarming that you would try to protect the NRA to sharing light on a biblical teaching and principle of vengeance. Is protecting the NRA Christian's new commission to the Great Commission (Matt 28:18-20)? CM
What does that have to do with anything?
@C_M_ said:
There are a number of questions below I would like you to consider from a biblical perspective with practical suggestions for today's society. Many people are frightened, hurt and angry. This, unfortunately, includes Christians. They are buying guns and even joined the NRA.
1. Is there ever a time for a Christian to "get even?" If so, when and how?No, vengeance is mine says the Lord.
- Doesn't the Bible teaches "an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth?"
Yes it the OT it did, but Jesus gave a better way.
- Should Christians let people walk all over them?
No, we see no evidence of that in Scripture.
- What about examples in the Bible when God directed a people to slay another group? Isn't that revenge?
No, that was a holy purging.
- Is there a difference of vengeance in the OT and the NT?
No
- Is there a difference in reflexive response and vengeance?
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.
- In a world of crime, hurt and bullying, how do people in general and Christians in particular, respond to a deep hurt or loss?
I'm not sure what you are asking.
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Is it right for a man of God to breathe vengeance on his enemies? In reading the psalms seem one may be inclined to think so. More on this at another time.
The most infamous expression of vengeance by a Christian was Martin Luther's work On the Jews and Their Lies. Written in 1543, Luther's book originated out his frustration and inability to convert Jewish individuals to Christ. Luther lashed out with the pen regarding this people and saying many things that have been used by Hitler and other anti-Jewish individuals. Discussed in other threads. CM
SOURCE:
-- See Martin Luther, On the Jews and Their Lies in Luther's Works, trans. Martin Bertram (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1971).
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@C_M_ said:
Is it right for a man of God to breathe vengeance on his enemies? In reading the psalms seem one may be inclined to think so. More on this at another time.The most infamous expression of vengeance by a Christian was Martin Luther's work On the Jews and Their Lies. Written in 1543, Luther's book originated out his frustration and inability to convert Jewish individuals to Christ. Luther lashed out with the pen regarding this people and saying many things that have been used by Hitler and other anti-Jewish individuals. Discussed in other threads. CM
SOURCE:
-- See Martin Luther, On the Jews and Their Lies in Luther's Works, trans. Martin Bertram (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1971).
There is a difference between true vengeance and lashing out with the pen don't you think?
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How do you define "true vengeance"? ___________ This is your answer. Tell me. CM
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@C_M_ said:
How do you define "true vengeance"? ___________ This is your answer. Tell me. CMLuther was not avenging anything in his writings and he did not exact a punishment for a wrong. Therefore, it was not true vengeance, in fact it wasn't vengeance at all.
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I am not interested in defending Luther's behavior. They speak for themselves. Besides, the OP is to view vengeance from a biblical perspective. We have discussed him in other posts. Read about it.
Your definition of vengeance ["a punishment for a wrong"] falls far short of how it's viewed in the Bible. It's much more from God's view than from finite minds.
To summarize in advance, from the Bible, vengeance is a divine attribute which shows itself in both redemptive and retributive dimensions, both of which are rooted in the covenant concept. Stay tuned, and let us learn from the Word. CM
