How do you understand the prologue to st john's gospel? (John 1:1-1:18)

Mitchell

How do you understand the prologue to st john's gospel (John 1:1-1:18)?

In your opinion and/or theology:

(1) What practically speaking is meant by ὁ Λόγος (the Logos/Word)?

(2)How do other ancient Greek writers use Λόγος and is their usage similar or different to how John uses Λόγος.

(3) What does ἀρχῇ (beginning) refer to?

(4) What does it mean when the text states that "The Word was πρὸς (with/towards/For) the God"

(5) What does it mean when the text states that the Word was God?

(6) Who does 'him' in "all things came through him" refer to?
Does it refer to
(a) God
(b) the Logos
(c) a combination of both
(d) to God as the Logos
(e) or to the Logos as God
(f) to two or more of the above?
(g) or to something else?

Mitchell

Please feel free to address anything else about the John 1:1-18

Dave_L

After checking into the definitions for Word and Beginning, I think this translation (NLT) is the clearest in giving their meanings.

“In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He existed in the beginning with God. God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him. The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it. God sent a man, John the Baptist, to tell about the light so that everyone might believe because of his testimony. John himself was not the light; he was simply a witness to tell about the light. The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God. So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son. John testified about him when he shouted to the crowds, “This is the one I was talking about when I said, ‘Someone is coming after me who is far greater than I am, for he existed long before me.’ ” From his abundance we have all received one gracious blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses, but God’s unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.” (John 1:1–18)

[Deleted User]

@Mitchell said:
In your opinion and/or theology:

(1) What practically speaking is meant by ὁ Λόγος (the Logos/Word)?

word, concept, thought ... the regular sense of the word as in many other passsages

(2)How do other ancient Greek writers use Λόγος and is their usage similar or different to how John uses Λόγος.

I am not too familiar with how other ancient Greek writers have used it. I would consider John to have used the word no differently than other NT writers have used it.

(3) What does ἀρχῇ (beginning) refer to?

From the overall scope of the gospel of John as providing a record of Jesus as the Son of God, I would consider "the beginning" to be a reference to "the beginning of the Son of God" ... his beginning was in the form of word in God's plan and God's foreknowledge, in God's plan ...

(4) What does it mean when the text states that "The Word was πρὸς (with/towards/For) the God"

I regard this to poetically describe that it is God's plan which He had in His mind, which is being spoken of

(5) What does it mean when the text states that the Word was God?

I regard this construction with the noun "God" being used here as part of a figure of speech (exchange of parts of speech) in the sense of an adjective in the sense of "divine". In other words, it is emphasized that this was not man's word and idea in man's plan, but it was God's divine word in God's divine plan.

(6) Who does 'him' in "all things came through him" refer to?

I consider the pronoun to refer to the noun "word" ... it does NOT refer to a "who", because "word" is not a "who" but rather a "what".
In Greek, the noun logos is grammatically of masculine gender, thus any pronouns are all of masculine gender. When translating into a different language, one must consider the gender of the translated term in the target language and adjust all pronouns to the grammatical gender also. In English, the matter of grammatical gender is not really existent as such ... but in other languages it is similar to the Greek. In German the translated term for "logos" is "Wort"; while in Greek logos is masculine, the German term "Wort" is neuter. Thus, the correct translation from Greek into German would not have the equivalent of "he,him" but rather have "It".

Does it refer to
(a) God
(b) the Logos
(c) a combination of both

In the statement in view, I would say the text simply states that all things came in accordance with God's plan (word) regarding the Messiah. Things came to pass in accordance with and with a view towards the fulfillment of God's plan for a coming Messiah

Pages

Some Observations Regarding John 1:1-3

First: in the context of these verses ἐν ἀρχῇ, vs. 1-2, would allude to that which is timeless eternity; differing from the temporal usage of ἐν ἀρχῇ in Acts 11:15, Phil. 4:15; ἀρχῇ in Mark 1:1; and ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῇ in Luke 1:2.

Second: regardless of how one defines ὁ λόγος in v.1 of John’s prologue, it is certain that ὁ λόγος enjoyed a pre-creation existence.

Third: ὁ λόγος and θεὸς are together, face to face, of the same quality, yet distinct from one another.

Fourth: it may be that ὁ λόγος is functioning as a personal title cf. Rev. 19:13 ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ. (cf. usage of memra in Jewish Targums)

Fifth: οὗτος v.2 and αὐτοῦ v.3 – both masculine singular pronouns, the former demonstrative and nominative, the latter personal and genitive. λόγος v.1 is masculine singular nominative, the antecedent of οὗτος v.2 and αὐτοῦ v.3.

Sixth: first occurrence in John’s Gospel of a neuter pronoun is v.5 αὐτὸ (it) with φῶς (light) being the antecedent.

Seventh: the contrast of ἦν (absolute being/exist) vs. 1-2 and ἐγένετο (came into being/created) v.3, or to paraphrase A. T. Robertson – “being contrasted to becoming” – cf. LXX use of ἐγένετο in Gen. 1.

Notes

Verse 1:

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ – (Gen. 1:1 LXX);

ἐν ἀρχῇ – (Jn 1:1 NA28)

b. beginning, origin in the abs. sense (“ἀρχή,” BDAG, 138.)

Were one to question whether Ἐν ἀρχῇ in John 1:1 is referring to Genesis 1:1, vs. 2-3 supplies the answer via a chronology of events – “He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” – contextually v.3 can only apply to the creation account, and vs. 1-2 prior to creation (cf. 1Jo. 1:1 ἦν ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς). John’s use of ζωὴ, φῶς, and σκοτία (life, light, darkness) in vs. 4-5 are also found in Genesis 1. ὁ κόσμος δι᾿ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο δι᾿ αὐτοῦ (the world was created by Him) v.10 lends support to vs. 1-3 alluding to this as well.

ἦν ὁ λόγος (was the Word), – ἦν (used four times vs. 1-2) to be, exist – in context prior to creation v.3, John’s use of ἦν is in contrast to ἐγένετο (made) came into being – vs.3, 6, 14.

καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν (and the Word was with God), – πρὸς (with) τὸν θεόν is used in a personal manner, in the presence of, or face to face with someone else. John is declaring the Word as distinct in person and in the company of God prior to creation v.3. ἦν πρὸς (was with) cf. 1John 1:2 πρὸς τὸν πατέρα, 2Co. 5:8 πρὸς τὸν κύριον.

89.112 πρός g: a marker of association, often with the implication of interrelationships — ‘with, before.’ εἰρήνην ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν θεόν ‘we have peace with God’ Ro 5:1; καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν ‘the Word was with God’ Jn 1:1; παρρησίαν ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν θεόν ‘we have confidence before God’ 1Jn 3:21. (“πρός,” L&N, 792.)

The idea seems to be ‘facing,’ German gegen. Cf. πρόσωπον. In ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν (Jo. 1:1) the literal idea comes out well, ‘face to face with God.’ (A. T. Robertson, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, Accordance electronic ed. (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1919), 623.)

b. equivalent to (Latin apud) with, with the accusative of a person, after verbs of remaining, dwelling, tarrying, etc. (which require one to be conceived of as always turned toward one), cf. Fritzsche as above: after einai, Matt. 13:56; Mark 6:3; 9:19; 14:49; Luke 9:41; John 1:1f; (“πρός,” Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, paragraph 8050.)

καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (and the Word was God). ὁ λόγος (the Word) is the subject in all three clauses of v.1. Within this last clause θεὸς (God), without the article, is functioning as a predicate nominative placed before the verb ἦν to emphasize and describe the nature of ὁ λόγος. In other words, ὁ λόγος and θεὸς are of the same quality and nature, yet distinct from one another cf. John 5:18.

Further, within Greek grammar, this last clause is not convertible; in other words, the basis as to why καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος is not translated to read and God was the Word is related to having a predicate nominative (θεὸς) that is anarthrous – an example of another anarthrous predicate nominative non-convertible syntax would be found in 1John 4:8, 16 ὁ θεὸς ἀγάπη ἐστίν (God is love) where ὁ θεὸς is the subject, and ἀγάπη (love – without the article) functions as a predicate nominative. Moreover, John not writing θεὸς with an article in this last clause of v.1 avoids equating θεὸς and ὁ λόγος as the same person; thereby, preserving the sameness of quality and nature with distinction between the two.

Verse 2:

“οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν θεόν.” “He was in the beginning with God.”

οὗτος: demonstrative pronoun, masculine, singular, nominative (this, this one, he). Referring to ὁ λόγος in v.1 [οὗτος (this one) – subject of clause), ἦν (existing), ἐν ἀρχῇ (in the beginning), πρὸς (with), τὸν θεόν (God)]. As with the antecedent ὁ λόγος in v.1; οὗτος (this one) is personal, distinct from, and in the company of God (πρὸς τὸν θεόν). A restatement of the first and second clause of verse one. (cf. v.7 οὗτος where John (the Baptist) v.6 is the antecedent)

Regarding the forms of the pronoun οὗτος: neuter form in the singular nominative is τοῦτο or τοῦτό. Feminine form in the singular nominative is αὕτη. John, in his Gospel, uses the masculine form οὗτος as the subject 40 times, the neuter form τοῦτο as the subject 3 times, and lastly the feminine form αὕτη is not found as a subject.

Verse 3:

“πάντα δι᾿ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν. ὃ γέγονεν” “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

All things were made ἐγένετο (came into being/came into existence) δι᾿ αὐτοῦ (through him); then restated negatively – and without him was not any thing made that was made. This last section presupposes that some things were not created; namely, θεὸς and ὁ λόγος. δι᾿ αὐτοῦ (through him), here and v.10 describe agency (cf. Paul’s earlier writing 1Cor. 8:6).

C Mc

@Pages said:

Some Observations Regarding John 1:1-3

Welcome, Pages.
Thanks, for the information. Feel free to look around and contribute to any of the topics (recent or old). Your views are welcome. CM

reformed

@Mitchell said:
How do you understand the prologue to st john's gospel (John 1:1-1:18)?

In your opinion and/or theology:

(1) What practically speaking is meant by ὁ Λόγος (the Logos/Word)?

The passage makes clear this is Christ.

(2)How do other ancient Greek writers use Λόγος and is their usage similar or different to how John uses Λόγος.

(3) What does ἀρχῇ (beginning) refer to?

Beginning of the world. This goes to the fact that everything was created through Christ. Christ was there in the beginning of time.

(4) What does it mean when the text states that "The Word was πρὸς (with/towards/For) the God"

The Son was right there with the father.

(5) What does it mean when the text states that the Word was God?

Jesus is also God.

(6) Who does 'him' in "all things came through him" refer to?
Does it refer to
(a) God
(b) the Logos
(c) a combination of both
(d) to God as the Logos
(e) or to the Logos as God
(f) to two or more of the above?
(g) or to something else?

D

Bill_Coley

@Mitchell said:
In your opinion and/or theology:

(1) What practically speaking is meant by ὁ Λόγος (the Logos/Word)?

"What practically speaking..." is an intriguing manner of asking the question, Brian. Thanks.

I ascribe to "logos" its original meaning: plan, vision, or design. Therefore, I take John 1.1 to mean that God's plan for humanity existed from the beginning of time, and so completely expressed God's intentions that John can say the logos was not only with God, but in fact was God.

(2)How do other ancient Greek writers use Λόγος and is their usage similar or different to how John uses Λόγος.

I'm not adept at linguistic history, so I take a pass on this one. I discovered, however, that the word has roots back to the beginning of the sixth century BCE.

(3) What does ἀρχῇ (beginning) refer to?

I'm not certain what to make of this word. I think John would contend that God is eternal, and had no beginning, so "beginning" can't refer to a specific time. I inclined, though not confident, John means that God has always had a plan or vision, that God and the logos have always co-existed.

(4) What does it mean when the text states that "The Word was πρὸς (with/towards/For) the God"

This is the co-existence to which I just referred.

(5) What does it mean when the text states that the Word was God?

In my view, the logos so completely expressed God's vision that John identifies it as God.

(6) Who does 'him' in "all things came through him" refer to?
Does it refer to
(a) God
(b) the Logos
(c) a combination of both
(d) to God as the Logos
(e) or to the Logos as God
(f) to two or more of the above?
(g) or to something else?

In context, it seems to me that "him" clearly refers to the subject of the first two verses, (b) the logos.