John 17:3 "And, this is eternal life..."?

Mitchell

According to John 17:3 and the entire pericope the verse is found (and the greater context of the book of John):

(a) What does it mean to know the one true God?
(b) What does it mean to know Jesus Christ(Yeshua the Messiah) whom the one true God sent?
(c) Does one automatically gain eternal life from knowing that God exists and that God sent the Messiah?

[Deleted User]

@Mitchell said:
According to John 17:3 and the entire pericope the verse is found (and the greater context of the book of John):
(a) What does it mean to know the one true God?
(b) What does it mean to know Jesus Christ(Yeshua the Messiah) whom the one true God sent?

The verb "to know" in this expression is part of a figure of speech (Metonymy) by which emphasis is put on the statement ... "to know" is put as the cause for the action "to believe in/to trust in".
The point of Jesus' statement is that those who BELIEVE in the Father as the only true God and in Jesus as the human Messiah whom God has sent, will receive eternal life (cp. various other statements where the same truth is expressed, such as John 3:16 !

(c) Does one automatically gain eternal life from knowing that God exists and that God sent the Messiah?

See above .... just "knowing something about" God and/or about Jesus" is NOT what the statement is about.

C Mc

Messiah, Son of God (John 17:3)

Who Jesus was is not simply a theological proposition to be proved or disproved.

• No, we are dealing here with the faith of untold numbers over the centuries.
• If Jesus is not what they have believed Him to be, then they have all been clinging to falsehood and fables and are all lost.
• If Jesus was simply a man who lived two thousand years ago in Palestine, then the Christian church has been involved in the most reprehensible hoax in the history of the world.

See the following texts to get at the heart of the issue?

Matt. 1:22, 23
Matt. 11:2-6
Matt. 22:41-45
MK 14:61-64
John 20:26-28

• The reaction of the disciples as they witnessed the miracle of the calming of the storm (Matt. 8:23–27) should be ours, as well: “‘What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!’ ” (vs. 27, NIV).

• The night of His arrest, the high priest put a direct question to Jesus and charged Him to answer under oath: “ _‘Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.’ ‘Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied” _(Matt. 26:63, 64, NIV).

• And in Pilate’s judgment hall, the governor had his own query: “ ‘Are you the king of the Jews?’ ” _Jesus’ response was the same: “ ‘Yes, it is as you say’ **_” (Matt. 27:11, NIV).

By any measure, these were two extraordinary responses. If Jesus, only the son (as was believed) of a humble carpenter from Nazareth, could have the boldness to answer Yes to Pilate’s question about kingship, He obviously was thinking of realities that transcend this world.

• And that is what we saw in His response in the high priest’s palace: “ _‘In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven’” (Matt. 26:64, NIV).

Truth found truth shared. CM

GaoLu

Even a broken clock is right twice a day @C_M_ is at high noon in this post.

C Mc

@GaoLu said:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day @C_M_ is at high noon in this post.

A plain thank you or "Amen" would have sufficed. Why would you have to make a swipe at me with such remarks? What have I said or done in these forums to cause to so boldly labeled me as "a broken clock?" By all means, be specific. You may send your response to me in a PM. Not that I am afraid of "your truth", mainly, because I want to avoid disrupting the flow of this thread. I would like you to honor my request. Thanks. CM

Mitchell

@Wolfgang said:
The verb "to know" in this expression is part of a figure of speech (Metonymy) by >which emphasis is put on the statement ... "to know" is put as the cause for the action >"to believe in/to trust in".

Excellent and** astute observation** Wolfgang!
Logically, it follows this verse is not simply about cognitive ascent, but rather it is about the "faith/trust" that writer of John so often speaks about.

This leads of course to some more observations
At, this point (at least) John says nothing about
(a) The various ontological theologies about Jesus identity
(b) the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost
(c) the Trinity, tri-unity, multipersonality, etc
(d) Church fellowship/membership
(e) dogma
(f) mode of baptism
(g) and so on

Rather, it seems at least according to this verse that the (boiled down bear essentials) saving faith is limited to:

(1) The Belief, Faith, or Trust in the one true God
and
(2) The Belief in Jesus/Yeshua as the Christ/Messiah/Anointed as the one sent(or approved) by God.

Now, this is not to say that (a) to (g) are not important, but just that John simply does not mention them here.

GaoLu

@C_M_ said:

@GaoLu said:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day @C_M_ is at high noon in this post.

A plain thank you or "Amen" would have sufficed. Why would you have to make a swipe at me with such remarks? What have I said or done in these forums to cause to so boldly labeled me as "a broken clock?" By all means, be specific. You may send your response to me in a PM. Not that I am afraid of "your truth", mainly, because I want to avoid disrupting the flow of this thread. I would like you to honor my request. Thanks. CM

Amusement.

You are free to enjoy good-hearted fun with me at any time. I rather enjoy it. I generally disagree with what you say and with your arrogant, condescending tone, yet sometimes you do great. Thanks for sharing your opinion of me as you have above. I actually have some known faults you haven't ciphered out yet.

But at the end of the day you have some great things to say sometimes. Probably better than me.

C Mc

@GaoLu said:
Amusement.

Amusement?

I generally disagree with what you say...

• Is this to you and or to other people?
• Is about my political views of America and the current administration?
• Is it my biblical understanding of texts, themes, or concepts?
• Is it my stance on social issues and/or norms?
• Is it my position on guns in general and in the classroom in particular?
• Or, is it my saying anything, about anything?

I generally disagree with what you say and with your arrogant, condescending tone, yet sometimes you do great.

"Arrogant, condescending tone"? Are you serious? Me? I would love you to unpack this, so I can mend the errors of my ways, as you so strongly believe. Those two words are not nice words to level at a person. If you're truly serious, I would like to know more. This needs to be mined for truth and reform. A PM may be a better venue than this thread. Hey, I can only suggest.

Thanks for sharing your opinion of me as you have above. I actually have some known faults you haven't ciphered out yet.

I am not here to find faults or figure you out. Why do you say this, honestly?

But at the end of the day you have some great things to say sometimes. Probably better than me.

You have good things to say too, GaoLu. Say them. Use quotes, paraphrases, poetry, etc. Express yourself, just be sincere, no comparison is necessary or required.

May peace, love, and hope guide your steps the rest of this day. CM

[Deleted User]

@GaoLu said:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day @C_M_ is at high noon in this post.

And I trust you noticed that NOTHING in the scriptures to which he referred says anything about Jesus = God !!

GaoLu

@C_M_ said:

@GaoLu said:
Amusement.

Amusement?

mmhmmm.

I generally disagree with what you say...

• Is this to you and or to other people?
• Is about my political views of America and the current administration?
• Is it my biblical understanding of texts, themes, or concepts?
• Is it my stance on social issues and/or norms?
• Is it my position on guns in general and in the classroom in particular?
• Or, is it my saying anything, about anything?

Yes.

I generally disagree with what you say and with your arrogant, condescending tone, yet sometimes you do great.

"Arrogant, condescending tone"? Are you serious? Me? I would love you to unpack this, so I can mend the errors of my ways, as you so strongly believe. Those two words are not nice words to level at a person. If you're truly serious, I would like to know more. This needs to be mined for truth and reform. A PM may be a better venue than this thread. Hey, I can only suggest.

1. Yes.
2. No to PM.

Thanks for sharing your opinion of me as you have above. I actually have some known faults you haven't ciphered out yet.

I am not here to find faults or figure you out. Why do you say this, honestly?

But at the end of the day you have some great things to say sometimes. Probably better than me.

You have good things to say too, GaoLu. Say them. Use quotes, paraphrases, poetry, etc. Express yourself, just be sincere, no comparison is necessary or required.

May peace, love, and hope guide your steps the rest of this day. CM

Same to you, CM.

C Mc

GaoLu,
Thanks, for the public response of your view of me with some restraint. I hope you find a new peace and satisfaction as a result.

Let the truth be told you were not helpless or without opportunities to address me directly or over time. You have been heard and has exercised your options to relate. With the water under the bridge, let's move on with our different views of understanding. We will learn new things and simultaneously, be reminded that we are not the same. This is a good thing. If we were the same, one of us will not be of any value in these forums. Thanks for the confirmation. You're welcome! CM

GaoLu

@C_M_ said:
GaoLu,
Thanks, for the public response of your view of me with some restraint. I hope you find a new peace and satisfaction as a result.

Hey, I am good to go. Never lost any.

Let the truth be told you were not helpless or without opportunities to address me directly or over time. You have been heard and has exercised your options to relate. With the water under the bridge, let's move on with our different views of understanding. We will learn new things and simultaneously, be reminded that we are not the same. This is a good thing. If we were the same, one of us will not be of any value in these forums. Thanks for the confirmation. You're welcome! CM

Welcome.