Exodus 24:10 (Saw or feared)
It is speculated (and basically accepted) that original Hebrew text of the Torah/Pentateuch was written only in consonants. Vowels and cantillation were supplied orally by the experienced reader. Even today Sefer Torah (Torah Scrolls) used in Synaguoge are written without vowel marks and cantillation marks as is the vast majority of modern Hebrew literature. (The dead sea scrolls also do not contain any diacriticals, cantillation/accent marks, or vowels.)
Cantillation/accent marks and vowels can radically change the meaning of a Hebrew text. Take for example the word וראו in Exodus 24:10 it can be read as וַיִּֽרְא֣וּ (and they feared ) or as וַיִּרְא֕וּ (and they saw). Notice, both these words are letter for letter identical and in this case, they even have the same vowels the only difference is the accent mark under the Aleph (א) which in the word feared would probably take either a Munach or a Tiphcha accent. However, as mentioned before both accents and vowels are absent in Torah scrolls, however, all the Masoretic diacriticals are present in Masoretic codices containing books of the Hebrew Bible and in printed editions of the Hebrew Bible/Tanakh.
Comments
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How does one arrive at the correct understanding in a situation where the NT does not provide an interpretation. Or pose as a guideline for understanding the passage from a NT perspective?
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Dave your question is probably better addressed to a theologian, especially one who accepts the ideological assumptions/premises that lay behind your question.
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Philology, linguistic analysis, and Biblical criticism are in my opinion more capable/equipped to address the issue I raised in the opening post.
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The Holy Spirit is not our genie but does guide us. God does speak to us and His sheep hear his voice
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Yes, indeed and the Holy Spirit may guide one to use philology, linguistic textual analysis, and Biblical criticism.
Here's a great example of that:
Gordon Fee an excellent textual critic and pneumatology specialist is also a Pentecostal and an ordained minister in the Assemblies of God USA. -
Absolutely!
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@Mitchell said:
Cantillation/accent marks and vowels can radically change the meaning of a Hebrew text. Take for example the word וראו in Exodus 24:10 it can be read as וַיִּֽרְא֣וּ (and they feared ) or as וַיִּרְא֕וּ (and they saw).Thanks Mitchell for the insights on "Cantillation/accent marks and vowels." For some of us, the Hebrew remains a challenge. However, God has provided discernable sources until we are further along the journey.
As for "feared" or "saw", could it be that both things happened together? In light of what was going on and what they have seen of God before, they responded accordingly. That is, to see a manifestation of God or be in his presence is to fear Him. This "fear" is out of reverence and respect. And, to do so, is to bow down. In short, to see God is to fear God. There were lots of light, sound, thunder, and show around this time with God's people. Multi-sensory instructions call for a multi-sensory response.
Even if they were "afraid", when they were in God's presence or when He manifested himself, they responded with unusual attention and concerns. This was one of the few times humans see God (Ex 33:11). They could only say what God was standing on. They ate and drank-- a part of covenant making. Sweet fellowship.
Mitchell, don't beat me up too badly. I stand to be corrected on my take of this text. Happy reading! CM
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@C_M_ said:
Thanks Mitchell for the insights on "Cantillation/accent marks and vowels."Thank you for taking the time to reply!
@C_M_ said:
As for "feared" or "saw", could it be that both things happened together?Indeed it could, and it, in my opinion, it would result in a 'false dichotomy' to argue otherwise. Also, as mention above, the Hebrew text (without the accents) is ambiguous enough to read either way (or both ways).
The rest of what you had to say reminds me very much of how James A. Borland **addresses the verse under consideration in his:
**Christ in the Old Testament; Old Testament Appearances of Christ in Human Form
The edition I read: ISBN-10: 1857924487
a newer edition: ISBN-10: 1845506278
can be found on Amazon (link)
The Logos edition (link)Mitchell, don't beat me up too badly. I stand to be corrected on my take of this text. >Happy reading! CM
I enjoyed reading your post and receiving any kind of feedback at all.
As for your take on the verse, I can only say Shiv'im Panim LaTorah ( שבעים פנים לתורה ) a saying meaning that there are '70 faces of/to the Torah'. Faces meaning aspects and/or interpretations. I do not actually believe that one verse can have innumerable meanings, but sometimes a verse can have multiple meanings and/or more than one application.
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@Mitchell said:
@C_M_ said:
Thanks Mitchell for the insights on "Cantillation/accent marks and vowels."Thank you for taking the time to reply!
@C_M_ said:
As for "feared" or "saw", could it be that both things happened together?Indeed it could, and it, in my opinion, it would result in a 'false dichotomy' to argue otherwise. Also, as mention above, the Hebrew text (without the accents) is ambiguous enough to read either way (or both ways).
Thanks, Mitchell, for your response in my taking a stab at the Hebrew text. I am honored.
The rest of what you had to say reminds me very much of how James A. Borland **addresses the verse under consideration in his:
**Christ in the Old Testament; Old Testament Appearances of Christ in Human Form
The edition I read: ISBN-10: 1857924487
a newer edition: ISBN-10: 1845506278I'm sorry, I don't have nor am I familiar with Mr. Borland's work. It looks like a good piece of work. I appreciate so much the tip of this book. I try to read widely, that I might think deeply and explain to others simply. I don't always succeed, but I try.
Mitchell, don't beat me up too badly. I stand to be corrected on my take of this text. >Happy reading! CM
I enjoyed reading your post and receiving any kind of feedback at all.
Again, I do what I can, when I can, as often as I can, for as many as I can. I hope my sharing meets CD's standards and prove to be beneficial to someone. I know, I am not one of CD's favorite sons, but hey, I'm willing to share and am opened to learn.
Mitchell, you bring a vital niche to this forum. Your based knowledge may be beyond some, but you appear to be a "good teacher" of what you know. May God bless you with your continuous sharing!
As for your take on the verse, I can only say Shiv'im Panim LaTorah ( שבעים פנים לתורה ) a saying meaning that there are '70 faces of/to the Torah'. Faces meaning aspects and/or interpretations. I do not actually believe that one verse can have innumerable meanings, but sometimes a verse can have multiple meanings and/or more than one application.
Ha, Ha, you are kind of your correctness. A thought: Does a system exist for Hebrew similar to Babel Language Translation?
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@C_M_ said:
Thanks, Mitchell, for your response in my taking a stab at the Hebrew text. I am honored.That's what forums like these are for.
@C_M_ said:
I'm sorry, I don't have nor am I familiar with Mr. Borland's work. It looks like a good >piece of work. I appreciate so much the tip of this book.Borland's book concentrates on the Theophanies and Christophanies in the Bible. Your descriptive comments while not identical reminded me a lot of what he had to say.
@C_M_ said:
I try to read widely, that I >might think deeply and explain to others simply. I don't >always succeed, but I try...I hope my >sharing meets CD's standards and prove to be beneficial to someone.This is just my opinion but I think you are doing a very good job. And, I appreciate your clear and straightforward approach. I think you bring a much need perspective to these forums.
@C_M_ said:
Again, I do what I can, when I can, as often as I can, for as many as I can.Keep in mind you have a purpose and something unique to offer (1 Corinthians 12:15-21).
@C_M_ said:
I'm willing to share and am opened >to learn.Please, continue to share I personally appreciate the spirit in which you ask, present, and share.
Mitchell, you bring a vital niche to this forum. Your based knowledge may be beyond >some, but you appear to be a "good teacher" of what you know. May God bless you with your continuous sharing!
Thank you for your compliments.
Ha, Ha, you are kind of your correctness. A thought: Does a system exist for Hebrew >similar to Babel Language Translation?
Actually, Google Translate has gotten much better at translating modern Hebrew and I think it is an okay free opinion.
Software like Accordance, BibleWorks, and Logos / Verbum / Noet offer a lot of awesome tools with which to glean something from original text (and do so much more) even if one has not mastered the languages. (I only mentioned those three because they are my favorite.)
There are also some decent free /opensource BibleSoftware, too: The SWORD Project and the BibleHub. The Free programs are great for quick lookups, but they do not provide the type of searches and options the proprietary software has.
Grace and Peace
