America's Mistake On Full Display in Helsinki: President Trump -- Treasonous or Mentally Ill

C Mc

Read the comments (online or newsfeeds) of the President's own party (Republicans) or Fox News (Trump's supporters) on today inexperience and foolishness. Their words speak powerfully of today's event. Question is why? He is either sick or criminal in his behavior (via arrogance/naiveté). If it's proven to be the former, he needs to resign and gets help. If it's the latter, he needs to be impeached immediately. This man, rejected counsel from his own people, questioned his own investigative bodies, Robert Mueller, and push conspiracy theories, all on foreign soil. It seems clear Mr. Putin has his fingers in Mr. Trump's eye. He failed to protect America from "all enemies foreign and domestic". This is the outcome of voting out of hatred, greed, and party affiliation/commitment.

Republicans need to wake up and Christians need to stop denying reality. Mr. Trump is a disappointment and dangerous. He was given 100 pages of briefings, by his staff, to be firm with Russia, but all were widely ignored. It's not funny or cute. He's America's problem to fix soon. It's a possibility that the country may not be able to wait for the next election. It's a sad day! Trump sides with Putin against the U. S. Government. He has debased himself and a nation. CM

Bill_Coley

@C_M_ said:
Read the comments (online or newsfeeds) of the President's own party (Republicans) or Fox News (Trump's supporters) on today inexperience and foolishness. Their words speak powerfully of today's event. Question is why? He is either sick or criminal in his behavior (via arrogance/naiveté). If it's proven to be the former, he needs to resign and gets help. If it's the latter, he needs to be impeached immediately. This man, rejected counsel from his own people, questioned his own investigative bodies, Robert Mueller, and push conspiracy theories, all on foreign soil. It seems clear Mr. Putin has his fingers in Mr. Trump's eye. He failed to protect America from "all enemies foreign and domestic". This is the outcome of voting out of hatred, greed, and party affiliation/commitment.

Republicans need to wake up and Christians need to stop denying reality. Mr. Trump is a disappointment and dangerous. He was given 100 pages of briefings, by his staff, to be firm with Russia, but all were widely ignored. It's not funny or cute. He's America's problem to fix soon. It's a possibility that the country may not be able to wait for the next election. It's a sad day! Trump sides with Putin against the U. S. Government. He has debased himself and a nation. CM

Your commentary is potent and on-target, CM. Thank you.

Mr. Trump's performance at the Helsinki news conference was both disgusting and predictable. Disgusting because, as you point out, he sided with our adversary over our own intelligence community; because he adapted his "what aboutism" approach to Charlottesville last year to his current need to stand in good stead with Vladimir Putin (in Charlottesville, there were "bad people on both sides;" in the modern world, we and the Russians are equally responsible for the deterioration of US-Russian relations); because yet again - for the who knows how manyeth time - he showed his abject unwillingness to criticize Putin, though he routinely and with juvenile glee and intentions insults political rivals, actors, and professional athletes. [It's really hard to explain his deference to Putin as anything other than a product of his fear of what Moscow has on him.]

I knew it was a bad day for Trumpsters International when I tuned briefly into Fox News after the press conference to hear one of their analysts say 1) the White House will say it's a good thing to have an open communication channel with Russia, and 2) the president "probably created a few problems for himself with some of those answers." When "State TV" goes south, watch out.

As usual, for one of Mr Trump's performances on the domestic or international stage, it's hard to describe the moral, ethical, and strategic debris the Helsinki summit leaves behind. About the only sure thing we know going forward is that this will happen again. Perhaps not in as grandiose and global a manner, but by the end of the week, the American president will lie frequently, insult domestic "foes" robustly, and put his own interests ahead of those of the nation he serves. In response, many/most Americans will be alarmed and offended, Trumpsters will smirk dismissively and tell us to look at what the president has accomplished, and the world will gasp yet again at the chaos and danger Mr Trump forces us to fend off.

Pray hard.

[Deleted User]

@C_M_ said:
Read the comments (online or newsfeeds) of the President's own party (Republicans) or Fox News (Trump's supporters) on today inexperience and foolishness. Their words speak powerfully of today's event. Question is why? He is either sick or criminal in his behavior (via arrogance/naiveté). If it's proven to be the former, he needs to resign and gets help. If it's the latter, he needs to be impeached immediately. This man, rejected counsel from his own people, questioned his own investigative bodies, Robert Mueller, and push conspiracy theories, all on foreign soil. It seems clear Mr. Putin has his fingers in Mr. Trump's eye. He failed to protect America from "all enemies foreign and domestic". This is the outcome of voting out of hatred, greed, and party affiliation/commitment.

Republicans need to wake up and Christians need to stop denying reality. Mr. Trump is a disappointment and dangerous. He was given 100 pages of briefings, by his staff, to be firm with Russia, but all were widely ignored. It's not funny or cute. He's America's problem to fix soon. It's a possibility that the country may not be able to wait for the next election. It's a sad day! Trump sides with Putin against the U. S. Government. He has debased himself and a nation. CM

WOW .... I see how brainwashed certain parts of the American people and even Christians in the USA are into evil mindsets... rather have nuclear war and world dominion than an attempt to live in peaceful coexistence with people of other nations ... good night, USA.

Cp. the following:
Is President Trump A Traitor Because He Wants Peace With Russia?
The Democrats say he is

To be clear, the Democratic Minority Leader of the US House of Representatives has accused Donald Trump of high treason against the United States. There is no outcry against this blatantly false accusation, totally devoid of evidence. The presstitute media instead of protesting this attempt at a coup against the President of the United States, trumpet the accusation as self-evident truth. Trump is a traitor because he wants peace with Russia.

Here is Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer (NY) repeating Pelosi’s false accusation: “Millions of Americans will continue to wonder if the only possible explanation for this dangerous behavior is the possibility that President Putin holds damaging information over President Trump.” If you don’t believe that this is orchestrated between Pelosi and Schumer, you are stupid beyond belief.

[Deleted User]

@Bill_Coley said:
As usual, for one of Mr Trump's performances on the domestic or international stage, it's hard to describe the moral, ethical, and strategic debris the Helsinki summit leaves behind.

I suppose attempting to have normal relations and a more peaceful co-existence with others rather than being a warmonger is morally, ethically just awful for a USA president?
It may be a strategic blow to the Deep State USA and Democrats party who are all in for war and world dominion ...

About the only sure thing we know going forward is that this will happen again. Perhaps not in as grandiose and global a manner, but by the end of the week, the American president will lie frequently, insult domestic "foes" robustly, and put his own interests ahead of those of the nation he serves.

Perhaps it will become more clear now who is who in the USA and who is which "nation" that really is or has become the USA ...

In response, many/most Americans will be alarmed and offended, Trumpsters will smirk dismissively and tell us to look at what the president has accomplished, and the world will gasp yet again at the chaos and danger Mr Trump forces us to fend off.

I would hope that more Americans will realize that there are Deep State forces trying to tell them they are the superior nation that must crush any and all other nations and be the world hegemon while making slaves of American citizens and taking away their freedom and liberty and turning the USA into a police state ... and that after decades of going in that direction there just may be a president who has a somewhat different view of the USA more peacefully coexisting with other nations ?

Pray hard.

I will ....

[Deleted User]

Here is some more in how Western media trump into the warmongering tune
https://www.infowars.com/meltdown-left-seething-over-trump-putin-summit/

[Deleted User]

An interview with V. Putin ... showing the ridiculously low level of Western mainstream media. Here's a wonderful example of how US media (FoxNews) conducts an interview with the president of another country ... this FoxNews "fox" Wallace is a disgrace.

Chris Wallace interviews Russian President Vladimir Putin

Hopefully the American public has still some common sense to realize the utter stupidity of Wallace's questions and points he tries to raise and the openness and clear and modest responses of president Putin. But then, perhaps the majority of the public can see through the stupidity of the FoxNews reporter's brainwashed attempts ...

Bill_Coley

@Wolfgang said:
I suppose attempting to have normal relations and a more peaceful co-existence with others rather than being a warmonger is morally, ethically just awful for a USA president?

"Normal relations" with Russia DO NOT AND MUST NOT ever include siding with Russia and against the strongly held and deeply documented view of the United States intelligence community, the Senate Intelligence Community, and grand juries in multiple jurisdictions that Russians did in fact improperly and illegally intervene in the 2016 presidential election for the purpose of sowing discord and influencing the final result.

In my view, any "more peaceful co-existence" that requires surrender to such improper and illegal conduct is not a "co-existence" worth seeking or achieving.

It may be a strategic blow to the Deep State USA and Democrats party who are all in for war and world dominion ...

Mr. Trump's appeasement of the Russian leader yesterday was a blow to anyone and any movement in any part of the world that values truth and justice.

I'm sure there are Americans and Russians and Germans who at some level "are all in for war and world domination," but objections to Mr Trump's conduct in Brussels, London, and Helsinki over the last week have nothing to do with such outcomes.

Perhaps it will become more clear now who is who in the USA and who is which "nation" that really is or has become the USA ...

I have no idea what this sentence means or how it is relevant to Mr Trump's refusal to accept the view of his own intelligence community - in whom he says he has "great confidence" - or a bipartisan Senate committee, or the findings of multiple grand juries in the American justice system.

I would hope that more Americans will realize that there are Deep State forces trying to tell them they are the superior nation that must crush any and all other nations and be the world hegemon while making slaves of American citizens and taking away their freedom and liberty and turning the USA into a police state ... and that after decades of going in that direction there just may be a president who has a somewhat different view of the USA more peacefully coexisting with other nations ?

Your deployment of terms such as "Deep State forces" and "world hegemon" in your response to my post, Wolfgang, is consistent with your political philosophy as I understand it, but it also allows you to write lots of words without so much as a sniff's worth of engagement with the issues my post actually raised.

Bottom line: Whether Russia improperly and illegally intruded on our 2016 presidential election is not a question of "Deep State forces" or "world hegemon." It's a matter of facts, evidence, truth, justice, and American values... your sincerely held political views notwithstanding.

[Deleted User]

@Bill_Coley said:
Bottom line: Whether Russia improperly and illegally intruded on our 2016 presidential election is not a question of "Deep State forces" or "world hegemon." It's a matter of facts, evidence, truth, justice, and American values... your sincerely held political views notwithstanding.

Where are the facts (and not just claims and hypothesis)?
Where is the evidence (instead of just claims and wishful thinking)?
Where is justice in an almost open coup against the USA president with nothing but schizophrenic claims by senators who behave insanely?
What American values do those behind a coup attempt have, except destruction, enslavement, corruption and the like (as has been promoted by the Clinton clan, Bush clan, and Obama regime? What American values have they brought to countries where they started wars of aggression?
What has happened with 09/11 and since then? the American people were duped and a in fact a police state has been instituted with "liberty and justice for all" and "land of the free and the home of the brave" having basically gone down the drain ...

Do you know that when visitors enter the USA, they are processed in basically the same manner as a criminal suspect would be processed at a county jail (finger prints, etc)?

Did you watch the FixNews interview with V. Putin? If anyone has seen it, I would hope they have noticed who of the two (Fox reporter / V. Putin) displayed honesty, sincerity, reasonable argument, factual explanations and who "had" to constantly try and interrupt, propagated propaganda in his questions and basically had nothing left of his accusations and propaganda "USA values"

[Deleted User]

Inciting and calling for a coup against the president of the country seems to be a criminal act that normally would be followed with an arrest for treason conducted by federal police ...

However, the USA seems to no longer go by such rules and procedures .... while the president endeavors to move in the direction of a peaceful coexistence with Russia, certain senators and representatives in the USA openly call for an overthrow of, a coup against the USA president. Democratic representative Steve Cohen wants the US armed forces to overthrow Trump ... how can that go not being prosecuted? is it because the former FBI director Comey also calls for a coup to overthrow the elected USA government? Cohen, Comey, and quite a few other prominent politicians now accuse Trump of treason (for endeavoring to perhaps take some steps toward a peaceful coexistence with Russia) and yet they themselves are really the ones who commit treason.

What I don't quite get is that Trump has all the evidence (open public declarations made by the culprits) he would need in order to have these rebels trying to overthrow the USA president and government arrested and put on trial for treason, and yet he hasn't acted on it?

reformed

@C_M_ said:
Read the comments (online or newsfeeds) of the President's own party (Republicans) or Fox News (Trump's supporters) on today inexperience and foolishness. Their words speak powerfully of today's event. Question is why? He is either sick or criminal in his behavior (via arrogance/naiveté). If it's proven to be the former, he needs to resign and gets help. If it's the latter, he needs to be impeached immediately. This man, rejected counsel from his own people, questioned his own investigative bodies, Robert Mueller, and push conspiracy theories, all on foreign soil. It seems clear Mr. Putin has his fingers in Mr. Trump's eye. He failed to protect America from "all enemies foreign and domestic". This is the outcome of voting out of hatred, greed, and party affiliation/commitment.

Republicans need to wake up and Christians need to stop denying reality. Mr. Trump is a disappointment and dangerous. He was given 100 pages of briefings, by his staff, to be firm with Russia, but all were widely ignored. It's not funny or cute. He's America's problem to fix soon. It's a possibility that the country may not be able to wait for the next election. It's a sad day! Trump sides with Putin against the U. S. Government. He has debased himself and a nation. CM

1. What impeachable offense happened this week?
2. What precisely did he do to question mental capacity? Are you a doctor? Have you examined him?
3. How has he failed to protect America?

Bill_Coley

@Wolfgang said:
Where are the facts (and not just claims and hypothesis)?
Where is the evidence (instead of just claims and wishful thinking)?
Where is justice in an almost open coup against the USA president with nothing but schizophrenic claims by senators who behave insanely?

Some of the "facts" and "evidence" are in the 29 page indictment handed down by a grand jury last week.

As you read the document, remember that indictments do not and cannot include the evidence that supports their declarations of fact. BUT, you can be sure Mueller and his team have specific evidence to support each of their claims. So the proper way to read the indictment is to ask yourself, "If I assume each of these declarations of fact is true, then does this indictment show evidence of a crime according to American law?" In my view, the answer to that question, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is yes.

What American values do those behind a coup attempt have, except destruction, enslavement, corruption and the like (as has been promoted by the Clinton clan, Bush clan, and Obama regime? What American values have they brought to countries where they started wars of aggression?

Allegations of coups, enslavements, corruption, and wars of aggression are not relevant to the question of whether Russians improperly and illegally intruded in the 2016 American presidential election.

What has happened with 09/11 and since then? the American people were duped and a in fact a police state has been instituted with "liberty and justice for all" and "land of the free and the home of the brave" having basically gone down the drain ...

Allegations of a duped populace, police states, and values having "basically gone down the drain" are not relevant to the question of whether Russians improperly and illegally intruded in the 2016 American presidential election.

Do you know that when visitors enter the USA, they are processed in basically the same manner as a criminal suspect would be processed at a county jail (finger prints, etc)?

Allegations about the manner in which visitors to the US are treated are not relevant to the question of whether Russians improperly and illegally intruded in the 2016 American presidential election.

Did you watch the FixNews interview with V. Putin? If anyone has seen it, I would hope they have noticed who of the two (Fox reporter / V. Putin) displayed honesty, sincerity, reasonable argument, factual explanations and who "had" to constantly try and interrupt, propagated propaganda in his questions and basically had nothing left of his accusations and propaganda "USA values"

You and I disagree strongly, and likely irreconcilably, as to whether there is evidence to support the claim that Russians improperly and illegally intruded in the 2016 American presidential election.

[Deleted User]

@Bill_Coley said:
Some of the "facts" and "evidence" are in the 29 page indictment handed down by a grand jury last week.

No ... there are no facts and evidence, rather a bunch of claims which even do not make much sense. Instead, the whole thing smells of an "inside USA war" going on and instigated by the Clinton clan with its influence over the Democratic party.

As you read the document, remember that indictments do not and cannot include the evidence that supports their declarations of fact. BUT, you can be sure Mueller and his team have specific evidence to support each of their claims.

Sorry ... having observed a number of DEEDS (and remember, deeds speak louder than words) over the last few years, I currently have not much reason to be sure of any words.

So the proper way to read the indictment is to ask yourself, "If I assume each of these declarations of fact is true, then does this indictment show evidence of a crime according to American law?" In my view, the answer to that question, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is yes.

See above ... I am not into assuming, but into reading as neutral and unemotional as possible and by evaluating what I read for plausibility and feasibility.

What American values do those behind a coup attempt have, except destruction, enslavement, corruption and the like (as has been promoted by the Clinton clan, Bush clan, and Obama regime? What American values have they brought to countries where they started wars of aggression?

Allegations of coups, enslavements, corruption, and wars of aggression are not relevant to the question of whether Russians improperly and illegally intruded in the 2016 American presidential election.

I think they are very relevant in that they show motive of what is going on with the people who instigated and who are behind this "special investigation"

You and I disagree strongly, and likely irreconcilably, as to whether there is evidence to support the claim that Russians improperly and illegally intruded in the 2016 American presidential election.

Most likely we also disagree strongly on the future of not only "the land of the free and the home of the brave" but its crumbling empire.

Bill_Coley

@Wolfgang said:
No ... there are no facts and evidence, rather a bunch of claims which even do not make much sense. Instead, the whole thing smells of an "inside USA war" going on and instigated by the Clinton clan with its influence over the Democratic party.

Ironic and telling, I think it is, that you present your claim that "the whole thing smells of an 'inside USA war' going on and instigated by the Clinton clan with its influence over the Democratic party" with, as you put it, "no facts and evidence." That is, your assertion here is guilty of the very crime for which you indict last week's indictment!

I am 99.9999999% sure than Mueller and his team have assembled FAR, FAR, FAR more evidence to support their "claims which even do not make much sense" than you have to support yours, Wolfgang.

As you read the document, remember that indictments do not and cannot include the evidence that supports their declarations of fact. BUT, you can be sure Mueller and his team have specific evidence to support each of their claims.

Sorry ... having observed a number of DEEDS (and remember, deeds speak louder than words) over the last few years, I currently have not much reason to be sure of any words.

In the US justice system - and this might be different in the German system - indictments make charges, then trials prove them (or not). Hence, BY DEFINITION, an indictment is a bunch of "words" that allege "deeds" committed by defendants, allegations that will be proved (or not) at trial.

Given that the Russian government will never allow its members to stand accountable for their actions in the 2016 election, we may never see the supporting evidence, but that won't happen because the evidence doesn't exist.

See above ... I am not into assuming, but into reading as neutral and unemotional as possible and by evaluating what I read for plausibility and feasibility.

From the content of your post, I conclude you're "not into" reading American justice system indictments.

I think they are very relevant in that they show motive of what is going on with the people who instigated and who are behind this "special investigation"

Another claim that you present with "no facts and evidence."

reformed

@reformed said:

@C_M_ said:
Read the comments (online or newsfeeds) of the President's own party (Republicans) or Fox News (Trump's supporters) on today inexperience and foolishness. Their words speak powerfully of today's event. Question is why? He is either sick or criminal in his behavior (via arrogance/naiveté). If it's proven to be the former, he needs to resign and gets help. If it's the latter, he needs to be impeached immediately. This man, rejected counsel from his own people, questioned his own investigative bodies, Robert Mueller, and push conspiracy theories, all on foreign soil. It seems clear Mr. Putin has his fingers in Mr. Trump's eye. He failed to protect America from "all enemies foreign and domestic". This is the outcome of voting out of hatred, greed, and party affiliation/commitment.

Republicans need to wake up and Christians need to stop denying reality. Mr. Trump is a disappointment and dangerous. He was given 100 pages of briefings, by his staff, to be firm with Russia, but all were widely ignored. It's not funny or cute. He's America's problem to fix soon. It's a possibility that the country may not be able to wait for the next election. It's a sad day! Trump sides with Putin against the U. S. Government. He has debased himself and a nation. CM

1. What impeachable offense happened this week?
2. What precisely did he do to question mental capacity? Are you a doctor? Have you examined him?
3. How has he failed to protect America?

I'll throw this to @Bill_Coley as well.

[Deleted User]

@Bill_Coley said:
I am 99.9999999% sure than Mueller and his team have assembled FAR, FAR, FAR more evidence to support their "claims which even do not make much sense" than you have to support yours, Wolfgang.

We'll see ... the deeds that have been seen about an "inside USA war" against the current president are rather clear evidence to anyone not looking through "democrat party glasses"

Given that the Russian government will never allow its members to stand accountable for their actions in the 2016 election, we may never see the supporting evidence, but that won't happen because the evidence doesn't exist.

Actually, that makes it rather easy to put up any unsubstantiated claims in an indictment in order to try and use the fact of an indictment being filed "as if it already was the evidence" and get others to act on it as if "guilty verdict" had already been handed down.

Reminds me of Trinitarians, who just claim the Holy Trinity is a Mystery, and then make illogical and unreasonable claims and even flat out contradictions to Scripture ...

I think they are very relevant in that they show motive of what is going on with the people who instigated and who are behind this "special investigation"

Another claim that you present with "no facts and evidence."

Only need to listen to what those senators and representatives publicly declare and how they act ... and you have your evidence handed to you by first hand admission.

Bill_Coley

@Wolfgang said:

I am 99.9999999% sure than Mueller and his team have assembled FAR, FAR, FAR more evidence to support their "claims which even do not make much sense" than you have to support yours, Wolfgang.

We'll see ... the deeds that have been seen about an "inside USA war" against the current president are rather clear evidence to anyone not looking through "democrat party glasses"

Once again, you offer "no facts and evidence" to support your claim. Again, that is, once again you offer a post that is guilty of THE VERY CRIME you allege against the indictment issued last week by the Mueller team.

Actually, that makes it rather easy to put up any unsubstantiated claims in an indictment in order to try and use the fact of an indictment being filed "as if it already was the evidence" and get others to act on it as if "guilty verdict" had already been handed down.

As I pointed out in my previous post, in the US, indictments state and summarize charges; they DO NOT prove them.

Reminds me of Trinitarians, who just claim the Holy Trinity is a Mystery, and then make illogical and unreasonable claims and even flat out contradictions to Scripture ...

I reject your analogy. There is NO EVIDENCE that ANY of the indictments' claims are "unreasonable," or "flat out contradictions" to the truth. In our justice system, in fact, the assumption is that Mueller and his team have evidence to back up each of the indictments' claims, and are prepared to present it in a court of law.

Again I point out, Wolfgang, that YOU are the one making totally unsubstantiated claims, YOU are the one presenting claims with what you've derisively called "no facts and evidence."

Where are the "facts and evidence" - NOT the hypotheses, conspiracy theories, speculations, or guesses - that support YOUR claims?

Another claim that you present with "no facts and evidence."

Only need to listen to what those senators and representatives publicly declare and how they act ... and you have your evidence handed to you by first hand admission.

Recall that the subject to which I responded with that assertion was the origins of the Mueller investigation - what your post called "the people who instigated and who are behind this 'special investigation'." Your statement here is false because it suggests - falsely - that "senators and representatives" played some role in determining whether a special counsel was appointed in the Trump/Russia matter. In fact, it was the deputy attorney general of the United States, NOT members of our Congress, who decided to appoint - who in your words, "instigated" - "this special investigation."

Bill_Coley

An interesting and telling development in the case of Trump's dump on America in his press conference with Vladimir Putin.

This morning the president tried to repaint his presentation in Helsinki by telling us that he misspoke: that when he said he couldn't see any reason why it "would" be Russia who meddled in our 2016 election, he actually meant to say he couldn't see any reason why it "wouldn't" be Russia.

Given the content of the REST of his remarks when standing next to his BFF Vlad while in Finland, only the most die hard or desperate of Trumpsters are accepting the new explanation.

That's good, but this is better: Among the photojournalists who took pictures as the president delivered his "correction" today was NY Times photographer Tom Brenner. On THIS TWEET, click the image and zoom in on the page of the president's text that he read from. Notice that among the hand-written edits evident on the page is the crossing out of a line that reads, "Anyone involved in that meddling [sic] to justice." It appears, that is, that the president of the United States intentionally removed from his prepared remarks the suggestion that Russians involved in meddling with our 2016 election - what likely was illegal activity according to American law - should be brought to justice.

So, dear Trumpsters, is THAT the action of a president who is committed to keeping America safe? one who is faithfully executing his oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States"? Do YOU believe those who meddled in our 2016 election, regardless of where they live, should be brought to justice if they broke American law?

[Deleted User]

@Bill_Coley said:
So, dear Trumpsters, is THAT the action of a president who is committed to keeping America safe? one who is faithfully executing his oath to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States"?

I see what I expected ... the frogs in the swamp made sufficiently loud noise and currently have sufficient power to force the one intending to drain it to take a step back.

Do YOU believe those who meddled in our 2016 election, regardless of where they live, should be brought to justice if they broke American law?

Since there was NO meddling with elections there should not be a case in the first place.

Investigate if there was a hacking or leaking by whistleblowers etc. and then prosecute the crimes which were uncovered by the information that became public.

C Mc

@reformed said:

1. What impeachable offense happened this week?
2. What precisely did he do to question mental capacity? Are you a doctor? Have you examined him?
3. How has he failed to protect America?

1. You're not seeking answers.
2. To ask the three questions show, you seen to not know enough about the subject matter to have intelligent exchanges.
3. Get up to speed and let's try it again.
4. You are too beholding to Mr. Trump and the ideologies of the Republican Party to digest any other view beyond the ones you currently hold.
5. A fish begins to rot at the head. Mr. Trump-- ere goes the Republican Party. CM

C Mc

@Bill_Coley said:
An interesting and telling development in the case of Trump's dump on America in his press conference with Vladimir Putin.

This morning the president tried to repaint his presentation in Helsinki by telling us that he misspoke: that when he said he couldn't see any reason why it "would" be Russia who meddled in our 2016 election, he actually meant to say he couldn't see any reason why it "wouldn't" be Russia.

Mr. Trump and the Republican Party:

The only people who find Mr. Trump's so-called "walk back" is the cult members of the Republican Party. Truth is going to spank Mr. Trump and America. CM

[Deleted User]

@C_M_ said:

@reformed said:
1. What impeachable offense happened this week?
2. What precisely did he do to question mental capacity? Are you a doctor? Have you examined him?
3. How has he failed to protect America?

1. You're not seeking answers.
2. To ask the three questions show, you seen to not know enough about the subject matter to have intelligent exchanges.
3. Get up to speed and let's try it again.
4. You are too beholding to Mr. Trump and the ideologies of the Republican Party to digest any other view beyond the ones you currently hold.
5. A fish begins to rot at the head. Mr. Trump-- ere goes the Republican Party. CM

WOW ... what a reply

[Deleted User]

@Bill_Coley said:
This morning the president tried to repaint his presentation in Helsinki by telling us that he misspoke: that when he said he couldn't see any reason why it "would" be Russia who meddled in our 2016 election, he actually meant to say he couldn't see any reason why it "wouldn't" be Russia.
Given the content of the REST of his remarks when standing next to his BFF Vlad while in Finland, only the most die hard or desperate of Trumpsters are accepting the new explanation.

The USA real powers behind the scenes have - unfortunately - proven Putin right that recent USA presidents are mere puppets of "a shadow government" and not really able to lead their country. There was hope, that the current president perhaps was not of that kind, but - understandably - his actions as leader only lasted as long as he was at the summit, when returning to "their" country, most likely he had been informed that "you either change your tune and be our puppet, or else ... "
How things will turn out, the future will show. And the American people at large will be the ones to live with the consequences .... thus far, it seems that too many are still fooled by the mass media propaganda of the "big powers" and actually support the current system of their own enslavement against change ... (sort of like Israel in the desert who rather wanted to return to Egypt)

reformed

@C_M_ said:

@reformed said:

1. What impeachable offense happened this week?
2. What precisely did he do to question mental capacity? Are you a doctor? Have you examined him?
3. How has he failed to protect America?

1. You're not seeking answers.
2. To ask the three questions show, you seen to not know enough about the subject matter to have intelligent exchanges.
3. Get up to speed and let's try it again.
4. You are too beholding to Mr. Trump and the ideologies of the Republican Party to digest any other view beyond the ones you currently hold.
5. A fish begins to rot at the head. Mr. Trump-- ere goes the Republican Party. CM

In other words, you have nothing. I'm not the unintelligent one here...

C Mc

With the Helsinki debacle flashing before the world's face, like Vegas neon lights, it's clear, for all to see, that 99.99% of the American Republican Party members are political chameleons, therefore, cowards. It's convenient to speak against Trump's poor performance with Putin while on the world's stage. What are the Republicans going to do beyond the mealy-mouth, follow-the-crowd critique of an obvious betrayal of America's value on full display? Where were they, all alone? Why did they let things give so far, to start? Mr. Trump is in over his head. He's not the deal-maker or the man he purports to be.

No Republicans, up for re-election, have confronted or held Mr. Trump accountable for his oleaginous political shenanigans. The military men around the President and the current cabinet have sold their souls like bottles of cheap wine. America wake up! You're moving in a trance-like cultic death march toward insignificance. It's bad for the economy, international relations, growth, development, and future. Can't I help "make America great again", even if outside the party? CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:
With the Helsinki debacle flashing before the world's face, like Vegas neon lights, it's clear, for all to see, that 99.99% of the American Republican Party members are political chameleons, therefore, cowards. It's convenient to speak against Trump's poor performance with Putin while on the world's stage. What are the Republicans going to do beyond the mealy-mouth, follow-the-crowd critique of an obvious betrayal of America's value on full display? Where were they, all alone? Why did they let things give so far, to start? Mr. Trump is in over his head. He's not the deal-maker or the man he purports to be.

No Republicans, up for re-election, have confronted or held Mr. Trump accountable for his oleaginous political shenanigans. The military men around the President and the current cabinet have sold their souls like bottles of cheap wine. America wake up! You're moving in a trance-like cultic death march toward insignificance. It's bad for the economy, international relations, growth, development, and future. Can't I help "make America great again", even if outside the party? CM

Except here are some problems with your little political rant:

1. The economy is booming and growing. So much for your assertion things are bad for the economy.
2. International relations have gotten better since Trump took office. Obama is who had destroyed IR.
3. Growth is happening. Development is happening.

You are like chicken little crying "the sky is falling"

Bill_Coley

@Wolfgang said:

The USA real powers behind the scenes have - unfortunately - proven Putin right that recent USA presidents are mere puppets of "a shadow government" and not really able to lead their country. There was hope, that the current president perhaps was not of that kind, but - understandably - his actions as leader only lasted as long as he was at the summit, when returning to "their" country, most likely he had been informed that "you either change your tune and be our puppet, or else ... "
How things will turn out, the future will show. And the American people at large will be the ones to live with the consequences .... thus far, it seems that too many are still fooled by the mass media propaganda of the "big powers" and actually support the current system of their own enslavement against change ... (sort of like Israel in the desert who rather wanted to return to Egypt)

As if often the case in your posts about political matters, Wolfgang, your latest post gives voice to your political philosophy, but avoids the specific issues under review.

The issue to which these paragraphs were your response was President Trump's purported walk-back of his Helsinki press conference claim that he could see no reason why it "would" be Russia that meddled in our 2016 presidential election, and my assertion that only the most die-hard of Trumpsters would accept his "I forgot to make it a contraction" defense. To those two matters, your response offers no direct, substantive reply.

Not that that's not understandable! The president's explanation was adolescent and literally unbelievable. It sounded like the product of a late-night group discussion during most of which participants said "I got nothing," but in the last desperate seconds, as hope slipped slowly from the room, a lower-level staffer in the corner of the room said, "You could always say, 'I said 'would' but meant 'wouldn't.'"

The president's explanation was silly and absurd. It offered no defense of the other embraces of Putin's denial of election meddling that he offered during the Helsinki press conference, an event in which the American president showed himself to be owned by the Russian leader. Trump's was an abysmal, embarrassing, but more importantly, frightening performance on the world stage.

But in your reply to me, you offered political philosophy as a substitute for direct engagement with those painful details.... All things considered, that was probably a good choice.

[Deleted User]

@Bill_Coley said:
The president's explanation was silly and absurd. It offered no defense of the other embraces of Putin's denial of election meddling that he offered during the Helsinki press conference, an event in which the American president showed himself to be owned by the Russian leader.

I would consider what he said in Helsinki to have been what he actually meant, just as I consider what Putin said about the 2016 election topic to have been what he meant.

It was just not what the USA powers behind the scenes want it to be in accordance with their attempt at a coup against the USA president. And the USA presstitutes are so loony and far from honest journalism that the world laughs about the non-existing quality of journalism in the USA and the rest of its vassals.

Trump's was an abysmal, embarrassing, but more importantly, frightening performance on the world stage.

I do't think so at all ... what was abysmal, embarrassing and frightening was the "performance" of USA senators and representatives and their propaganda mouthpieces "journalists" after their president returned home.

The world could see 2 very simple things:
(1) Trump and Putin attempt to normalize relations between their countries in a direction of a peaceful coexistence
(2) The USA "deep state" (Democratic party, a number of Republican politicians, the military industrial complex and banksters) attempt to propagate a (nuclear) war with Russia, unless Russia sells out and becomes a USA vassal.
The warmongers were not in Helsinki talking, they were and have been in Washington and other places in the USA

But in your reply to me, you offered political philosophy as a substitute for direct engagement with those painful details.... All things considered, that was probably a good choice.

See above .... what you consider "painful" is nothing compared to how painful things will become if the Democrats/Clinton/etc powers should achieve the open total takeover ...

Bill_Coley

@Wolfgang said:
I would consider what he said in Helsinki to have been what he actually meant, just as I consider what Putin said about the 2016 election topic to have been what he meant.

It was just not what the USA powers behind the scenes want it to be in accordance with their attempt at a coup against the USA president. And the USA presstitutes are so loony and far from honest journalism that the world laughs about the non-existing quality of journalism in the USA and the rest of its vassals.

So in your view, the American president "actually meant" that he couldn't see any reason why it "would" have been Russia who meddled in our 2016 presidential election.

• What do you think Mr. Trump "actually meant" yesterday when he said he MEANT to say that he couldn't see any reason why it "wouldn't" have been Russia who meddled in our 2016 presidential election?
• When you claim that Trump "actually meant" what he said in Helsinki, aren't you saying you also believe he actually lied the following day when he said he meant to say "wouldn't," not "would"?
• Whom do you hold accountable for that lie? Mr Trump, the one who spoke it, or rather "USA senators and representatives," "their propaganda mouthpieces 'journalists,'" "the USA 'deep state,' and "warmongers"?

The world could see 2 very simple things:
(1) Trump and Putin attempt to normalize relations between their countries in a direction of a peaceful coexistence

In my view, any "peaceful coexistence" between two nations in which one is not held accountable for its covert, improper, and illegal intrusion into the elections of the other is neither authentically "peaceful" nor a desirable "coexistence."

(2) The USA "deep state" (Democratic party, a number of Republican politicians, the military industrial complex and banksters) attempt to propagate a (nuclear) war with Russia, unless Russia sells out and becomes a USA vassal.
The warmongers were not in Helsinki talking, they were and have been in Washington and other places in the USA

I respect - though disagree with - your political philosophy.

See above .... what you consider "painful" is nothing compared to how painful things will become if the Democrats/Clinton/etc powers should achieve the open total takeover ...

See above.

[Deleted User]

@Bill_Coley said:
So in your view, the American president "actually meant" that he couldn't see any reason why it "would" have been Russia who meddled in our 2016 presidential election.

• What do you think Mr. Trump "actually meant" yesterday when he said he MEANT to say that he couldn't see any reason why it "wouldn't" have been Russia who meddled in our 2016 presidential election?

I think he was pressured/forced by "advisors" of the USA deep state to change his statement, or else ...

• When you claim that Trump "actually meant" what he said in Helsinki, aren't you saying you also believe he actually lied the following day when he said he meant to say "wouldn't," not "would"?

See above ... seems like an attempt on his side to appease his USA enemies

• Whom do you hold accountable for that lie? Mr Trump, the one who spoke it, or rather "USA senators and representatives," "their propaganda mouthpieces 'journalists,'" "the USA 'deep state,' and "warmongers"?

Any person is accountable for their own words ... sometimes the circumstances have a lot to do with what people say one time and what they say another time.

The world could see 2 very simple things:
(1) Trump and Putin attempt to normalize relations between their countries in a direction of a peaceful coexistence

In my view, any "peaceful coexistence" between two nations in which one is not held accountable for its covert, improper, and illegal intrusion into the elections of the other is neither authentically "peaceful" nor a desirable "coexistence."

I can hardly withhold a smile ... I consider the claim and instigation by Democrats to turn attention away from their illegal deeds during the election campaign (Clinton's misdeeds in particular) to be the big matter, as it makes actually NO SENSE for Russia to try and influence an outcome of the US elections, and even more so, since Trump wasn't even on the political scene prior. And, V. Putin has confirmed that his country has no interest in meddling with the US election, and explained a few things about this in the FoxNews interview (which, by the way, he did so that American can hear first hand rather than through mainstream propaganda media

(2) The USA "deep state" (Democratic party, a number of Republican politicians, the military industrial complex and banksters) attempt to propagate a (nuclear) war with Russia, unless Russia sells out and becomes a USA vassal.
The warmongers were not in Helsinki talking, they were and have been in Washington and other places in the USA

I respect - though disagree with - your political philosophy.

Great ...

[Deleted User]

@Bill,
here's an interesting link to an article with some comments on the summit in Helsinki

A walk on the wild side as Trump meets Putin at Finland station

Something from the article in reference to the "Russiagate" / election collusion / etc:

Trump: “There was no collusion… I beat Hillary Clinton easily.”
Putin: “We should be guided by facts. Can you name a single fact that would definitively prove collusion? This is nonsense.”

Then, the clincher: the Russian president calls [Special Counsel] Robert Mueller’s ‘bluff’, offering to interrogate the Russians indicted for alleged election meddling in the US if Mueller makes an official request to Moscow. But in exchange, Russia would expect the US to question Americans on whether Moscow should face charges for illegal actions.

Trump hits it out of the park when asked whether he believes US intelligence, which concluded that Russia did meddle in the election, or Putin, who strongly denies it.

“President Putin says it’s not Russia. I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

As if this was not enough, Trump doubles down invoking the Democratic National Committee (DNC) server. “I really do want to see the server. Where is the server? I want to know. Where is the server and what is the server saying?”

It was inevitable that a strategically crucial summit between the Russian and American presidencies would be hijacked by the dementia of the US news cycle.

Trump was unfazed. He knows that the DNC computer hard-drives – the source of an alleged “hacking” – simply “disappeared” while in the custody of US intel, FBI included. He knows the bandwidth necessary for file transfer was much larger than a hack might have managed in the time allowed. It was a leak, a download into a flash-drive.

Additionally, Putin knows that Mueller knows he will never be able to drag 12 Russian intelligence agents into a US courtroom. So the – debunked – indictment, announced only three days before Helsinki, was nothing more than a pre-emptive, judicial hand grenade.

Bill_Coley

@Wolfgang said:
@Bill,
here's an interesting link to an article with some comments on the summit in Helsinki

You have linked to articles from "The Saker" site on several occasions in the past, Wolfgang, so I am not surprised by your reference to one in this thread.

The article seems to string together a series of quotations from the Helsinki presser, occasionally adding a personal comment or two. The fact that the author calls last week's indictment of 12 Russians already "debunked" is prima facie evidence of the author's lack of knowledge about the American justice system, or perhaps his willful deceit on the matter. In any event, authors who get such basic facts wrong - intentionally or otherwise - in my book have a tall hill to climb to regain their lost credibility.

The article communicates a point of view about Trump and Russia that is not surprising given the subtitle of the website that hosts it: "Stop the Empire's War on Russia." In my view, nothing in its content mitigates against Trump's woeful and dangerous incompetence as president, or his witting/unwitting and disgraceful surrender to Putin and Co.