Israel’s Restoration?
Israel’s Restoration?
Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.
“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)
The single event which none but the Father knows the time of, is the resurrection on the last day. And if we consider believers in Christ as biblical Israel, the resurrection speaks of Israel’s restoration into the New Heavens and earth.
Acts also places this on the last day.
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19–21)
And making sure this refers to the last day and end of the world, Matthew says;
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:35–36)
So while many look for a physical 1000 yearlong kingdom in this evil world, God’s restoration of Israel speaks of the new heavens and earth coming about on the last day when as Peter says;
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)
Comments
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Thanks for this post. Let's get an understanding first:
- When it comes to Israel, are talking literal Israel or (the NT) spiritual Israel= the Church?
- When it comes to God’s restoration of Israel happening 7 years after the rapture, what is the starting point of the "rapture"?
- How do you define the "rapture"? Is it biblical?
- As for the 1000 year long = millennium, is literal or figurative? Based on what text (s) it any?
- The cited texts reflects the Bible writers addressing his current audience and/or future restoration?
I remain. CM
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@C_M_ said:
Thanks for this post. Let's get an understanding first:- When it comes to Israel, are talking literal Israel or (the NT) spiritual Israel= the Church?
- When it comes to God’s restoration of Israel happening 7 years after the rapture, what is the starting point of the "rapture"?
- How do you define the "rapture"? Is it biblical?
- As for the 1000 year long = millennium, is literal or figurative? Based on what text (s) it any?
- The cited texts reflects the Bible writers addressing his current audience and/or future restoration?
I remain. CM
1> In Romans 11 God broke the unbelieving physical Jews off from Israel. And some will and have been reattached through faith in Christ, for the Father's sake. So technically speaking the only biblical Israel is Christ and those who believe in him.
2> The rapture doctrine as being 7 years before the "tribulation" has no direct support in scripture. The only thing close to a rapture happens after the resurrection of the dead saints on the last day.
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)
3> The rapture as taught by J.N. Darby since the 1800s is not biblical.
3> Most err thinking the 1000 years of Revelation 20 is a Millennial reign of Christ in a physical kingdom on earth. But John uses the 1000 years to represent the binding of Satan. He says when the 1000 years end, Satan is loosed. The binding keeps Satan from deceiving the nations. So the binding is the gospel preached to the whole world.
4> Both
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- Paul taught the rapture long before Darby. Jesus alluded to it.
- The whole of Rom 11 makes clear that Israel has a real, literal, physical future restoration as a people.
Of course, Israel can be saved just like any other Christians today and it happens all the time, starting with Jesus disciples. But that is a different, unrelated thing from the restoration that is clearly taught in Rom 11.
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@GaoLu said:
1. Paul taught the rapture long before Darby. Jesus alluded to it.GaoLu, help me to understand your position:
1. Do agree with Dave that the "Rapture" is unbiblical?
2. And if so, are you saying Paul taught an untruth or heresy?
3. Or, was it Darby who taught unbiblical theory as biblical truth?- The whole of Rom 11 makes clear that Israel has a real, literal, physical future restoration as a people.
- GaoLu, when you speak of "the whole of Rom 11 makes clear that Israel has a real, literal, physical future restoration as a people", When will this happen?
- When will the "literal, physical" restoration of Israel take place (before or after the return of Jesus)?
- What about the restoration of the land of Israel now? Does it include any annexed lands?
Of course, Israel can be saved just like any other Christians today and it happens all the time, starting with Jesus disciples. But that is a different, unrelated thing from the restoration that is clearly taught in Rom 12.
To be sure I am following you, and that you understand, where I coming, answer me the following:
- What's the difference between the salvation of the Jews and the restoration of the Jews?
- Are your statements above a support and/or an endorsement of the dispensationalism teachings ("Normative", "Ultra", or "Moderate")?
Dispensationalism is a system of biblical interpretation that divides the history of God's dealing with humans into several dispensations, which are distinguished by different ways of divine dealing with them. It's spelled out in a framework of dispensations:
- The literal interpretation of the Scripture.
- The premillennial return of Christ.
- The distinctions between Israel and the church.
- The differences between the church and the millennial kingdom.
- The basic differences between law and grace, unanimity and consistency.
Dispensationalism is from the English word "dispensation" is an anglicized form of the Latin "dispensatio" which the Vulgate uses to translate the Greek word **oikonomia (from a combination of oikos, "house", and "noaos", "rule, management", etc.).
- The masculine noun form oikonomos occurs ten times (Luke 12:42; 16:1, 3, 8; Rom 16:23; 1 Cor 4:1, 2; Gal 4:2; Titus 1:7; and 1 Pet 4:10).
- The feminine noun form oikonomia appears nine times in the New Testament (Luke 16:2, 3, 4; 1 Cor 9:17; Eph 1:10; 3:2, 9; Col 1:25; 1 Tim 1:4), where it is usually translated either "stewardship" or "administration" in the NASB.
Are we talking about the same thing? I remain. CM
SOURCE:
-- W. W. Skeat, An Etymological Dictionary of the English Language (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1946), 174.
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You are convoluting this with extreme complexity. Keep it simple.
- What did Paul say about the rapture. Real simple, clear and easy.
- I made no statement about dispensationalism and do not allude to it.
GaoLu, when you speak of "the whole of Rom 11 makes clear that Israel has a real, literal, physical future restoration as a people", When will this happen?
When will the "literal, physical" restoration of Israel take place (before or after the return of Jesus)?
We don't know exactly, but it will.
What about the restoration of the land of Israel now? Does it include any annexed lands?
We don't know exactly.
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Keep in mind that in Romans 11, faith in Christ is what reattaches the broken off branches. This also proves it was Israel from whom God removed the unbelievers. And to Christ/Israel he will reunite many through faith. National restoration? No, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. And to preach the gospel until the end of the world. Jerusalem will remain trodden down of the gentiles (uncircumcised Jews) until that time. (Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross.)
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@GaoLu said:
You are convoluting this with extreme complexity. Keep it simple.- I'm very sorry to cause any confusion.
- What did Paul say about the rapture. Real simple, clear and easy.
Did you intend for this to be a question? If so, do I take this to mean that you are unable or unwilling to answer my questions? Namely:
- What's the difference between the salvation of the Jews and the restoration of the Jews?
- Are your statements above a support and/or an endorsement of the dispensationalism teachings ("Normative", "Ultra", or "Moderate")?
This brings us back to the original questions:
1. What is the "Rapture" or how do you define it?
2. Is the "rapture" taught in the Bible, in general, and by Paul in particular?
3. Do agree with Dave, that the "Rapture" is unbiblical?
4. Did Darby who taught unbiblical theory as biblical truth?- I made no statement about dispensationalism and do not allude to it.
- Correct you didn't state it, but "rapture", "literal, physical restoration of Israel" are part of the wheelhouse of dispensationalism. This is why I asked you what type you were referring. The teaching among in that system alone can be confusing and or inconsistent.
GaoLu, when you speak of "the whole of Rom 11 makes clear that Israel has a real, literal, physical future restoration as a people", When will this happen?
When will the "literal, physical" restoration of Israel take place (before or after the return of Jesus)?
- This statement or believe is dispensationalist teachings.
We don't know exactly, but it will.
What about the restoration of the land of Israel now? Does it include any annexed lands?
We don't know exactly.
- Why not? Based on your belief in "restoration of the land of Israel", do you think God is more concern about saving people over physical land?
I wait for your response. CM
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@Dave_L said:
National restoration? No, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.Indeed ... there is no such thing as a restoration of the earthly political nation of Israel mentioned or spoken of in the Bible. As a matter of fact, Jesus told the Jews of his idea that "their house would be left desolate to them", nothing about being restored.
The last of the biblical nation of Israel came to its final end in God's judgment upon apostate Israel in the events culminating with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in the 1st century. There will be no further Biblical earthly political nation of Israel after that ... they forfeited the conditional promises which they had been given, and they reaped the consequences of what already Moses set forth before them IF they would forsake YHWH (which they did) ...As for the idea of a earthly political kingdom of Jesus, such a theological idea contradicts Jesus' very own words (which Dave mentioned above as well), when he declared that his kingdom, his reign was not of an earthly political nature ("of this world [age]".
The current Zionist state which was artificially established by Anglo/Zionist powers at work in the Near East during the first half of the 20th century has nothing whatever to do with the Bible ... it is NOT the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.
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@Wolfgang said:
... As for the idea of a earthly political kingdom of Jesus, such a theological idea contradicts Jesus' very own words (which Dave mentioned above as well), when he declared that his kingdom, his reign was not of an earthly political nature ("of this world [age]".
The current Zionist state which was artificially established by Anglo/Zionist powers at work in the Near East during the first half of the 20th century has nothing whatever to do with the Bible ... it is NOT the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.
Wolfgang,
Are you the right messenger to bring this truth? CM -
@C_M_ said:
Wolfgang,
Are you the right messenger to bring this truth? CMIf you don't like me as a messenger, find another one ... there are plenty who know this truth
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Just a question. Speak your truth. You're probably a nice guy. See you around the forums.
CM -
@C_M_ said:
- What did Paul say about the rapture. Real simple, clear and easy.
Did you intend for this to be a question? If so, do I take this to mean that you are unable or unwilling to answer my questions?
I am pretty sure I answered you above. The statement is rhetorical as the answer is very clear and simple and I don't know anyone who disputes the teaching of Paul on the rapture (probably not even you).
Namely: * What's the difference between the salvation of the Jews and the restoration of the Jews?
Depending on context and usage they are very different things, which I think I said already.
- Are your statements above a support and/or an endorsement of the dispensationalism teachings ("Normative", "Ultra", or "Moderate")?
As I said before I do not hold to any specific theology set and don't find that the established sets are entirely accurate. So, I avoid them.
Good grief, do you realize how many descriptors there are for dispensationalists and amillennialists, etc.? Categories, subcategories--obviously the master-catalogers haven't a clue how to pigeonhole people either.
This brings us back to the original questions:
1. What is the "Rapture" or how do you define it?1 Thess 4:13-17
- Is the "rapture" taught in the Bible, in general, and by Paul in particular?
Paul and may be alluded to by Jesus and others including Peter and John.
- Do agree with Dave, that the "Rapture" is unbiblical?
Nope.
- Did Darby who taught unbiblical theory as biblical truth?
Grammar problem...try again?
What about the restoration of the land of Israel now? Does it include any annexed lands?
We don't know exactly.
- Why not?
I don't know why not either.
Based on your belief in "restoration of the land of Israel", do you think God is more concern about saving people over physical land?
I doubt God rates his degrees of concern over matters he sovereignly directs. So I don't know know how to rate such concerns either.
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GaoLu,
Thanks, for your honest and timely responses. CM
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