Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

C Mc

Dave & Reformed,
When it comes to Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks, what's the starting date or point? It has to be a correct starting point to end right. Happy sharing. CM

Dave_L

@C_M_ said:

@reformed said:

@Dave_L said:

@C_M_ said:
Who are the other American "top dogs" today? CM

I'm not aware of what the TV preachers are saying. But years ago the rapturists had quite a presence there. But you can rest assured that any pre-tribber has zero scripture to base their claims on. Not only do direct quotes from scripture not exist, they removed themselves from the bible entirely by inserting a hypothetical gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks. They removed the 70th week from the rest of scripture and built a hypothesis on it alone.

Pre-Trib, such as myself, have plenty of Scripture. Otherwise we wouldn't be Pre-Trib.

This may be true, but are they in harmony with the Daniel prophecy? Do share your texts and explain as you teach or believe them. Dave and I would like to know how you reach your conclusion. Thanks. CM

The pre-trib rapture and the seven year tribulation depend on a gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks. This removes the prophecy from being fulfilled by Jesus who annulled the temple sacrifice in the middle of the week (33 AD) by the sacrifice of himself. And replaces him with an Antichrist of the future who will put an end to a revived temple sacrifice.

Much rides on this alleged gap that scripture never mentions.

C Mc

@Dave_L said:

The pre-trib rapture and the seven year tribulation depend on a gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks. This removes the prophecy from being fulfilled by Jesus who annulled the temple sacrifice in the middle of the week (33 AD) by the sacrifice of himself. And replaces him with an Antichrist of the future who will put an end to a revived temple sacrifice.

Much rides on this alleged gap that scripture never mentions.

Thanks, Dave. I wonder, is this the way Reformed sees it?
Notwithstanding, what's the starting point of the prophecy? CM

GaoLu

You guys are building a whopper of a straw man. Guess I'll stand by and watch it topple or go up in flames. Something's gotta happen to that unrecognizable monster and it will surely be impressive!

C Mc

@GaoLu said:
You guys are building a whopper of a straw man...

You may not be an acknowledged troll of these forums, but I am wondering do you take them seriously, especially the biblical ones? My reason for saying so is your own words:

@GaoLu said: "...I'll stand by and watch it topple or go up in flames. Something's gotta happen to that unrecognizable monster..."

You are free to add to the conversation, but don't expect everyone to agree with you on everything. If you are serious, share. Please, don't let your political leanings contaminate the Holy Word. CM

GaoLu

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.

I can't see that you are discussing much, Just whipping the same cream working yourself into a lather. I do have thoughts on the matter but wouldn't poke anything valuable in that frenzied tornado.

C Mc

@GaoLu said:
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.

True, but are you calling or inferring to someone as a "fool"?

I can't see that you are discussing much, Just whipping the same cream working yourself into a lather. I do have thoughts on the matter but wouldn't poke anything valuable in that frenzied tornado.

"Hmmm", the truth or cop out? CM

PS. Raise the standards.

GaoLu

Raising the standard Biblically:

It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling. --PR 20:3

C Mc

@GaoLu said:
Raising the standard Biblically:

It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling. --PR 20:3

Are you describing you and Bill? Or, are you trying to reflect what the two of you do, most of the time around these forums? CM

GaoLu

I didn't write that. Paul did. It likely applies to most people. If the shoe fits, put it on.

C Mc

@GaoLu said:
I didn't write that. Paul did. It likely applies to most people. If the shoe fits, put it on.

Without a context, it's meaningless. "A text without a context is a pretext." CM

PS. The Apostle Paul wrote the Books of Proverbs or in it? As you would have it, I will try it on Mr. Trump:

@GaoLu said: It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling. --PR 20:3

"The shoe fits" your President. You're good, GaoLu, but check the writer of the passage above. CM

GaoLu

Right. It wasn't Paul.

GaoLu

It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling. --PR 20:3

@C_M_ does the shoe fit you?

C Mc

@Dave_L said:

@C_M_ said:
Who are the other American "top dogs" today? CM

I'm not aware of what the TV preachers are saying. But years ago the rapturists had quite a presence there. But you can rest assured that any pre-tribber has zero scripture to base their claims on. Not only do direct quotes from scripture not exist, they removed themselves from the bible entirely by inserting a hypothetical gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks. They removed the 70th week from the rest of scripture and built a hypothesis on it alone.

Dave,
The gap between the 69th and 70th week (that you said is not biblical) is called "GAP Theory". Let's not confuse it with “creationists” in “the response of some conservative Christians to the theory of evolution, using the terms:

• “Active gap theory" -- which inserts a speculative description of what might have happened in the gap between the events of Gen 1:1 and 1:2.
• "Passive gap theory."

This one, the "hypothetical gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks", "GAP theory" was done to "silence the Protestant Reformation". This GAP theory continued after a few years through:

1. The Scofield Bible published this theory in 1909.
2. Then it was picked up by Hal Lindsey -- author of "Late Great Planet Earth" and promoted in his books. (None of Hal’s prophecies have followed his predictions). It sees:

• The secret rapture / Antichrist comes (removes stigma from Rome)/2nd coming of Christ. From beginning to end is the = 7 years of tribulation

  • Between the "secret rapture" and "Antichrist comes" = 3 1/2 years {The Temple rebuilt, animal sacrifice reinstalled}.
  • Between the "Antichrist comes" and the "2nd coming of Christ" = another 3 1/2 years, this time = {"Sacrifice stopped, Jews convert the world"}.

Like most things, nothing existed in a vacuum. There are history and context. One must first note the key figures (people) attached to this theory. Do you know who they are? It's a hard truth. Many men are afraid of it. They stir-up nebulous arguments and distractions. Let's study on to exalt truth. CM

Dave_L

@C_M_ said:

@Dave_L said:

@C_M_ said:
Who are the other American "top dogs" today? CM

I'm not aware of what the TV preachers are saying. But years ago the rapturists had quite a presence there. But you can rest assured that any pre-tribber has zero scripture to base their claims on. Not only do direct quotes from scripture not exist, they removed themselves from the bible entirely by inserting a hypothetical gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks. They removed the 70th week from the rest of scripture and built a hypothesis on it alone.

Dave,
The gap between the 69th and 70th week (that you said is not biblical) is called "GAP Theory". Let's not confuse it with “creationists” in “the response of some conservative Christians to the theory of evolution, using the terms:

• “Active gap theory" -- which inserts a speculative description of what might have happened in the gap between the events of Gen 1:1 and 1:2.
• "Passive gap theory."

This one, the "hypothetical gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks", "GAP theory" was done to "silence the Protestant Reformation". This GAP theory continued after a few years through:

1. The Scofield Bible published this theory in 1909.
2. Then it was picked up by Hal Lindsey -- author of "Late Great Planet Earth" and promoted in his books. (None of Hal’s prophecies have followed his predictions). It sees:

• The secret rapture / Antichrist comes (removes stigma from Rome)/2nd coming of Christ. From beginning to end is the = 7 years of tribulation

  • Between the "secret rapture" and "Antichrist comes" = 3 1/2 years {The Temple rebuilt, animal sacrifice reinstalled}.
  • Between the "Antichrist comes" and the "2nd coming of Christ" = another 3 1/2 years, this time = {"Sacrifice stopped, Jews convert the world"}.

Like most things, nothing existed in a vacuum. There are history and context. One must first note the key figures (people) attached to this theory. Do you know who they are? It's a hard truth. Many men are afraid of it. They stir-up nebulous arguments and distractions. Let's study on to exalt truth. CM

Thanks CM; Here's something I ran across you might already have. If not it's pretty interesting. It's about the Jesuits and Dispensationalism straight from the horse's mouth..

“The “Futurist School” interprets the language of the Apocalypse “literally,” except such symbols as are named as such, and holds that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet “future” and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of “Daniel's Seventy Weeks.”

This view, while it dates in modern times only from the close of the Sixteenth Century, is really the most ancient of the three. It was held in many of its prominent features by the primitive Fathers of the Church, and is one of the early interpretations of scripture truth that sunk into oblivion with the growth of Papacy, and that has been restored to the Church in these last times.

In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who, actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the “Antichrist,” and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future.

This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and that among Protestants.

It is the most largely accepted of the three views. It has been charged with ignoring the Papal and Mohammedan systems, but this is far from the truth, for it looks upon them as fore shadowed in the scriptures, and sees in them the “Type” of those great “Anti-Types” yet future, the “Beast” and the “False Prophet.”

The “Futurist” interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book.” Dispensational Truth; pg. 5 Clarence Larkin

GaoLu

@GaoLu said:

It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife, but every fool will be quarreling. --PR 20:3

@C_M_ does the shoe fit you?

Uh Hmmmm. C_M_?

Don't go all slippery again.