Do you believe in the Resurrection
Comments
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POST DELETED. POSTED IN WRONG THREAD! SORRY!
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??? What does this have to do with my question as to where Scripture speaks about "the resurrected will be able to recognize one another" ??
The word "immoral" is used only once in the Bible and it refers to God (1 Tim. 1:17). God alone is immortal (1 Tim 6:15-16 NIV & NASB). Man is mortal and subject to death (Gen. 2:16-17-NASB; Gen. 3:3 NASB).
Yes ... and what does this have to do with my question?
In the Roman Catholic lay-edited magazine Commonweal (Jan. 15, 1971) on the subject of hell. The author wa-50s Father Joseph E. Kokjohn, of St. Ambrose College, Iowa, stated:
- "There is no such phrase in Scripture as 'immortal soul' or 'immortality of the soul' or its equivalent; there is only the PROMISE of immortality."
Again, relevance to answering my question?
The Bible speaks of man becoming immortal (Rom. 2:7).
Actually, the verse speaks about mortal man with the resurrection and change will then have eternal life and thus as a resurrected person will be immortal. It does not really say that mortal man of flesh will become an immortal man of flesh, etc.
Dr. William Temple said,
- "Man is not immortal by nature or of right, but he is capable of immortality and there is offered to him resurrection from the dead and life eternal if he will receive it from God and on God’s terms... and if "eternal life is always the gift of God" and "neither a natural property of human nature..."
This use of the expression "man ... is capable of immortality" is "confusion talk" in my opinion ... man is NOT capable of immortality at all. Man, a being of flesh and blood with a physical body etc is NOT able to inherit the kingdom of God (cp 1Co 15 which clearly states so about "flesh and blood" .. )
1Co 15:46-50 (AV)
Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.Also, observe the various contrasting characteristics such as natural-spiritual, earthy-heavenly, etc.
I'm compelled to ask, what is death?
I would say one would first need to have the context in which the term is used, as it may refer to the end of earthly life with no breath-life, or the status of eternal death with no eternal life.
Does a part of man continue to live after he dies?
Ok, this question seems to indicate that you are speaking about the end of a man's earthly life, when a person has "taken their last breath" (as it is at times called)
I would say the Bible is clear that those who have thus died, do NOT live partly or in some other shape or way at all ... only with the resurrection and change are they made alive, albeit in a different realm and with eternal life (speaking of believers, those for whom the resurrection is a resurrection to life eternal)
If so, there's no need for a resurrection.
What is resurrected? What is changed in a "moment" ... at the resurrection?The person who has believed in God and His Messiah ... I would say that asking about "what" is actually asking the wrong question. Cp. again the 1Co 15 passage in which the "how" of resurrection/change is described and illustrated by what is sown into the ground and what comes of it. The seed of grain is not resurrected as a seed of grain, is it? NO! what was before a seed of grain in the resurrection becomes something entirely different, a plant of wheat, etc ...
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@Wolfgang said:
@C_M_ said:
What is resurrected? What is changed in a "moment" ... at the resurrection?
The person who has believed in God and His Messiah ... I would say that asking about "what" is actually asking the wrong question. Cp. again the 1 Cor. 15 passage in which the "how" of resurrection/change is described and illustrated by what is sown into the ground and what comes of it. The seed of grain is not resurrected as a seed of grain, is it? NO! what was before a seed of grain in the resurrection becomes something entirely different, a plant of wheat, etc ...
- Are you saying the dead (man) grows while in the grave? "The dead in Christ shall rise first..." (1 Thess. 4:16)
- What will rise? Answer: Believers?
- What will be changed? Answer: Corrupted bodies?
- At what speed will the change take place? Answer: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:52).
- Do you know the speed of in the twinkling of an eye? _______________ Keep studying...CM
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@C_M_ said:
1. Are you saying the dead (man) grows while in the grave??? How did you get such a loony idea?
"The dead in Christ shall rise first..." (1 Thess. 4:16)
that is what it says ... but what does that have to do with what you asked?
- What will rise? Answer: Believers?
"what?" > NOTHING
WHO? the dead believers raised to life eternal- What will be changed? Answer: Corrupted bodies?
The believers will be changed ...
- At what speed will the change take place? Answer: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:52).
that's what the verse says ...
- Do you know the speed of in the twinkling of an eye? _______________ Keep studying...
Most likely I know just as much or more than you do ... but for a few other things, you should heed your own encouragement to keep studying
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@Wolfgang said: Most likely I know just as much or more than you do ...
This is not the issue at hand. Let's remain focused.
@Wolfgang said: "...but for a few other things, you should heed your own encouragement to keep studying".
I am, Mr. Wolfgang, bare with me. Just sharing for better understanding. CM
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well, my comment related to your question "5. Do you know the speed of in the twinkling of an eye?"
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Thanks for the clarification. However, that was my original question to you. Mmm, A question with a question. Tell me:
1. Do you want a scientific answer or my thoughts on the matter?
2. What do you think about the speed "in the twinkling of an eye"?
3. Is this "twinkling of an eye"- change, literal or figurative?What is Paul trying to say here? CM
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@C_M_ said:
Thanks for the clarification. However, that was my original question to you. Mmm, A question with a question. Tell me:
1. Do you want a scientific answer or my thoughts on the matter?
2. What do you think about the speed "in the twinkling of an eye"?
3. Is this "twinkling of an eye"- change, literal or figurative?What is Paul trying to say here?
Paul is explaining that the change would happen in an instant, in one tiny moment. Since the context indicates nothing about someone literally twinkling with their eye, it should be plain and clear that Paul uses the expression "in the twinkling of an eye" as a figure of speech TO EMPHASIZE the shortness, quickness etc with which the change will happen.
Note that the expression has nothing to do with whether or not the change is literal or figurative because it does not refer to the type or manner of the change but to THE TIME/SPEED in or with which it happens.
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@Wolfgang said:
@C_M_ said:
Thanks for the clarification. However, that was my original question to you. Mmm, A question with a question. Tell me:
1. Do you want a scientific answer or my thoughts on the matter?
2. What do you think about the speed "in the twinkling of an eye"?
3. Is this "twinkling of an eye"- change, literal or figurative?What is Paul trying to say here?
Paul is explaining that the change would happen in an instant, in one tiny moment. Since the context indicates nothing about someone literally twinkling with their eye, it should be plain and clear that Paul uses the expression "in the twinkling of an eye" as a figure of speech TO EMPHASIZE the shortness, quickness etc with which the change will happen.
I am in total agreement with on these points. Wise man!
@Wolfgang said: Note that the expression has nothing to do with whether or not the change is literal or figurative because it does not refer to the type or manner of the change but to THE TIME/SPEED in or with which it happens.
Let's not get lost here. You're right the expression indicates "TIME/SPEED". Other the other hand we're not in the dark on the "type or manner". The rest of the text makes this clear: "... the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:52).
Resurrected (the dead-bodily) and those alive WILL BE CHANGED!
- Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
- For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
- But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory" (1 Cor.15: 51-54).
Spiritual bodies, not ghosts, "... the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thess 4:13 NASB95). Capiche? CM
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@C_M_ said:
Let's not get lost here. You're right the expression indicates "TIME/SPEED". Other the other hand we're not in the dark on the "type or manner". The rest of the text makes this clear: "... the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:52).
Resurrected (the dead-bodily) and those alive WILL BE CHANGED!- Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
- For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
- But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory" (1 Cor.15: 51-54).
Please note the "PUT ON" ... it is not "changed into"
Illustration: I am wearing a "cotton T-shirt" now, then I PUT ON a "fleece jacket". My clothing changes ... BUT - please note - the T-shirt does not turn into, is not changed into a fleece jacket. The T-shirt is gone, its' over with, becomes "dust", is irrelevant altogether to me when I have put on the NEW clothing which is a fleece jacket. The new clothing has nothing to do with the old piece I had before ... it is new from a time perspective as well as new and different from the perspective of what kind it is.
>Spiritual bodies, not ghosts, "... the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thess 4:13 NASB95). Capiche? CM
Indeed ... spiritual bodies ... but NOT physical bodies as before with some changes and adjustments to the previous physical bodies.
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