#MeToo Must Stop
The Kavanaugh circus is proof that METOO must stop. What this movement has become is that any woman who makes an allegation must be believed whether or not the allegation is true. If a woman accuses a man it must be believed.
It is time to put this movement in the grave.
Comments
-
@reformed said:
The Kavanaugh circus is proof that METOO must stop. What this movement has become is that any woman who makes an allegation must be believed whether or not the allegation is true. If a woman accuses a man it must be believed.It is time to put this movement in the grave.
That's right! It's time to put the movement in the grave and women back in their place!!!
-
@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said:
The Kavanaugh circus is proof that METOO must stop. What this movement has become is that any woman who makes an allegation must be believed whether or not the allegation is true. If a woman accuses a man it must be believed.It is time to put this movement in the grave.
That's right! It's time to put the movement in the grave and women back in their place!!!
Because that's what I said....typical liberal....
-
@reformed said:
Because that's what I said....typical liberal....
I've never thought of myself as a "typical" anything, so your characterization stings, reformed.
As for my comment, I was simply standing shoulder to shoulder with you. Just because a woman comes forward and is willing to make her charges to the FBI, under penalty of felony prosecution for making false statements, doesn't mean we should pay attention to her. If she didn't file a police report on the night she was assaulted, it's her own fault if she's not heard!
And just because all the research shows how difficult it is for sexual assault victims to come forward - that some victims NEVER come forward - well, that doesn't mean we can't demand the women who accuse our Supreme Court nominees, presidential candidates, or current and former presidents of sexual assault come forward immediately, especially if it was a "traumatic event" for them.
...
Snark out of the way, exactly what do you believe we SHOULD do with the accusations of women who come forward late in nomination processes, and are willing to make their accusations to the FBI under penalty of felony prosecution? Please be VERY specific. Should we ignore their accusations? Should we confirm accused nominees, but allow accusers access to FBI investigations whose results could be employed AFTER the nominee assumed the office for which he or she was confirmed?
And what about the extensive data - that is EASILY discovered online - that show without doubt that many/most sexual assault victims come forward VERY reluctantly, usually VERY MUCH AFTER their assaults, and many times, don't come forward AT ALL? Do you reject the nearly unanimous findings of that research? If you don't reject the data out of hand, how do you recommend that such data affect the way we respond to the allegations of accusers who wait to come forward?
-
@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said:
Because that's what I said....typical liberal....
I've never thought of myself as a "typical" anything, so your characterization stings, reformed.
As for my comment, I was simply standing shoulder to shoulder with you. Just because a woman comes forward and is willing to make her charges to the FBI, under penalty of felony prosecution for making false statements, doesn't mean we should pay attention to her. If she didn't file a police report on the night she was assaulted, it's her own fault if she's not heard!
Not what I said. And in the case of Ford I don't really believe she is willing to talk to law authorities. She still hasn't moved to actually do so in a manner that would actually happen. AKA press charges.
And just because all the research shows how difficult it is for sexual assault victims to come forward - that some victims NEVER come forward - well, that doesn't mean we can't demand the women who accuse our Supreme Court nominees, presidential candidates, or current and former presidents of sexual assault come forward immediately, especially if it was a "traumatic event" for them.
Not at all what I said. The Me Too movement is not about truth or facts. It's about women being believed no matter what.
...
Snark out of the way, exactly what do you believe we SHOULD do with the accusations of women who come forward late in nomination processes, and are willing to make their accusations to the FBI under penalty of felony prosecution? Please be VERY specific. Should we ignore their accusations? Should we confirm accused nominees, but allow accusers access to FBI investigations whose results could be employed AFTER the nominee assumed the office for which he or she was confirmed?
If they were credible they would go to law enforcement. She has not. So if she isn't even going to press charges and just make accusations, her credibility is virtually nothing.
And what about the extensive data - that is EASILY discovered online - that show without doubt that many/most sexual assault victims come forward VERY reluctantly, usually VERY MUCH AFTER their assaults, and many times, don't come forward AT ALL? Do you reject the nearly unanimous findings of that research? If you don't reject the data out of hand, how do you recommend that such data affect the way we respond to the allegations of accusers who wait to come forward?
I do not say I reject that. But I reject that when you do go public you still won't press charges. Why?
-
@reformed said:
Not what I said. And in the case of Ford I don't really believe she is willing to talk to law authorities. She still hasn't moved to actually do so in a manner that would actually happen. AKA press charges.Another manner in which it would "actually happen" that Blasey Ford would talk to law enforcement is if the White House, perhaps at the request Republicans on the Judiciary Committee, would ask the FBI to reopen its background investigation on Judge Kavanaugh. But neither the White House nor committee GOPers are willing to ask for such a reopening. As you might say, reformed: Suspect!
Why doesn't Blasey Ford want to press charges? Only she can answer that, but I believe she has the right not to do so without receiving the scorn and insinuations of people who don't know her or the impact the incident has had on her life. There is not one single way victims of sexual assault handle their experiences.
Not at all what I said. The Me Too movement is not about truth or facts. It's about women being believed no matter what.
I encourage you to read more broadly and deeply than you have to-date on BOTH the impact of sexual assault on its victims AND the MeToo movement. If you do, you'll discover that the MeToo movement is not first about being believed; it's about calling attention to the reality and prevalence of sexual assault and harassment in our society.
If they were credible they would go to law enforcement. She has not. So if she isn't even going to press charges and just make accusations, her credibility is virtually nothing.
I encourage you to read more broadly and deeply than you have to-date on the impact of sexual assault on its victims. If you do, you'll discover that a victim's willingness to press charges is NOT a necessary condition for credible accusations.
I do not say I reject that. But I reject that when you do go public you still won't press charges. Why?
I encourage you to read more broadly and deeply than you have to-date on the impact of sexual assault on its victims.
-
@reformed said:
The Kavanaugh circus is proof that METOO must stop. What this movement has become is that any woman who makes an allegation must be believed whether or not the allegation is true. If a woman accuses a man it must be believed.It is time to put this movement in the grave.
Indeed ... while there may be legitimate reason in situations for prosecution of sexual harassment, what this movement has turned into is "a loony tunes circus" tool that is misused for actual harassment of usually white males accused for totally unrelated motives.
I can tell you, I am in danger of facing prosecution due to having put my arm around a mid-age woman as part of a conversation, and now the woman may press charges because she later on mentioned that I should not have physically touched her.
And such is not only the case in the USA, as you can see ...
-
@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said:
Not what I said. And in the case of Ford I don't really believe she is willing to talk to law authorities. She still hasn't moved to actually do so in a manner that would actually happen. AKA press charges.Another manner in which it would "actually happen" that Blasey Ford would talk to law enforcement is if the White House, perhaps at the request Republicans on the Judiciary Committee, would ask the FBI to reopen its background investigation on Judge Kavanaugh. But neither the White House nor committee GOPers are willing to ask for such a reopening. As you might say, reformed: Suspect!
Not suspect, she has holes in her story, can't tell the same story twice, etc. There's no reason to believe her.
Why doesn't Blasey Ford want to press charges? Only she can answer that, but I believe she has the right not to do so without receiving the scorn and insinuations of people who don't know her or the impact the incident has had on her life. There is not one single way victims of sexual assault handle their experiences.
Not if they wish to be believed by others and the law.
Not at all what I said. The Me Too movement is not about truth or facts. It's about women being believed no matter what.
I encourage you to read more broadly and deeply than you have to-date on BOTH the impact of sexual assault on its victims AND the MeToo movement. If you do, you'll discover that the MeToo movement is not first about being believed; it's about calling attention to the reality and prevalence of sexual assault and harassment in our society.
I'm talking about what it has turned into, not the original intent.
If they were credible they would go to law enforcement. She has not. So if she isn't even going to press charges and just make accusations, her credibility is virtually nothing.
I encourage you to read more broadly and deeply than you have to-date on the impact of sexual assault on its victims. If you do, you'll discover that a victim's willingness to press charges is NOT a necessary condition for credible accusations.
Again, this would be a valid point IF she hasn't been making national headlines and causing a stir.
I do not say I reject that. But I reject that when you do go public you still won't press charges. Why?
I encourage you to read more broadly and deeply than you have to-date on the impact of sexual assault on its victims.
Same junk different thread.
-
@reformed said:
Same junk different thread.
Your responses in our exchanges about this matter have prompted me on multiple occasions - by my casual count, in eight different posts - to encourage you to read more broadly and deeply than you have to-date on the subject of the impact of sexual assault on its victims. THE most illuminating aspect of your response to those encouragements is that you haven't directly responded to any of them. Not once have you claimed to know all you need to know about the impact of sexual assault, or that you realize your need to learn more about the impact of sexual assault, or anything in between. Perhaps your response to my most recent encouragement to learn more about the impact of sexual assault - "Same junk different thread" - lays bare your point of view on the issue?
-
@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said:
Same junk different thread.
Your responses in our exchanges about this matter have prompted me on multiple occasions - by my casual count, in eight different posts - to encourage you to read more broadly and deeply than you have to-date on the subject of the impact of sexual assault on its victims. THE most illuminating aspect of your response to those encouragements is that you haven't directly responded to any of them. Not once have you claimed to know all you need to know about the impact of sexual assault, or that you realize your need to learn more about the impact of sexual assault, or anything in between. Perhaps your response to my most recent encouragement to learn more about the impact of sexual assault - "Same junk different thread" - lays bare your point of view on the issue?
No, my point is that this is an invalid point once she started going public on a national level.
-
@reformed said:
No, my point is that this is an invalid point once she started going public on a national level.
And YET AGAIN you totally avoid the subject of your need to learn more, or the potential value of your learning more, about the impact of sexual assault on its victims.
At some point - say, about four or five responses ago - I think it will be fair to conclude that you don't think you need to learn more and/or you don't want to learn more about the impact of sexual assault on its victims.
-
@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said:
No, my point is that this is an invalid point once she started going public on a national level.
And YET AGAIN you totally avoid the subject of your need to learn more, or the potential value of your learning more, about the impact of sexual assault on its victims.
At some point - say, about four or five responses ago - I think it will be fair to conclude that you don't think you need to learn more and/or you don't want to learn more about the impact of sexual assault on its victims.
No I don't and I don't care to. What I am saying, once you go public on a national level, forget all of that it no longer matters. That's a distraction, a cop out, a red herring, an EXCUSE.
So again, If they were credible they would go to law enforcement. She has not. So if she isn't even going to press charges and just make accusations, her credibility is virtually nothing.
![[Deleted User]](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fcddec765be35f238a0844bd23f54b59/?default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F8ce8323767a20f0f45db140c4cd2cea1_200.png&rating=g&size=200)