Some historical facts related to the Jews
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Below is a link to an article by a Thomas Dalton from 2013 with some rather interesting information, documented with references to sources, about some historical facts concerning the Jews.
The Jewish Hand in the World Wars, Part 1
This should add some facts to the beliefs many Christians have about the current Zionist state called "Israel" and the current Jews being God's chosen people who have returned to their home country in fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.
Comments
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Here we go....
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@reformed said:
Here we go....well ... I did not write the article ... should one ignore important facts concerning a matter and rather believe propaganda (even if the propaganda is propagated by men of supposedly high credibility (such as church preachers, mainstream media, politicians, etc) ?
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@Wolfgang said:
Below is a link to an article by a Thomas Dalton from 2013 with some rather interesting information, documented with references to sources, about some historical facts concerning the Jews.What do you think of these so-called facts? CM
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@Wolfgang said:
@reformed said:
Here we go....well ... I did not write the article ... should one ignore important facts concerning a matter and rather believe propaganda (even if the propaganda is propagated by men of supposedly high credibility (such as church preachers, mainstream media, politicians, etc) ?
You don't need to read past the first few paragraphs to see the bias in the story. It is skewed facts, tainted perception.
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Oh, @Wolfgang. You like your alternative news! That article is a bit over the top for me.
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This article is shameful! Wolfgang, love Israel or leave her along! CM
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This is not just "over the top". It's shameful!!! Wolfgang, what do you have against the Jews? To share this article here, in CD, is the Mother Of Trolling. This literary garbage and its content are unforgivable! CM
PS. Love Israel or leave her alone. CM
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I see what I sort of expected .... some only want to read or hear what fits with what they have been taught before. Your reactions remind me of this:
"I know, Adam and Eve ate an apple! You showing me the verse in a translation which doesn't say 'apple' must be wrong! Shame on you troll for bringing up such a false translation."
Instead of beating on my, why don't you show where the writer of the article and the sources he provides for facts he mentions is wrong?
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Waste of time. CM
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@Wolfgang said:
I see what I sort of expected .... some only want to read or hear what fits with what they have been taught before. Your reactions remind me of this:"I know, Adam and Eve ate an apple! You showing me the verse in a translation which doesn't say 'apple' must be wrong! Shame on you troll for bringing up such a false translation."
Instead of beating on my, why don't you show where the writer of the article and the sources he provides for facts he mentions is wrong?
From the very start, starting with the example of Joseph, this article is off-base.
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@reformed said:
From the very start, starting with the example of Joseph, this article is off-base.what in the article concerning the example of Joseph is incorrect? Was the outcome of his policies as vice-regent in Egypt not what is mentioned in the article? If so, what was different?
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@Wolfgang said:
@reformed said:
From the very start, starting with the example of Joseph, this article is off-base.what in the article concerning the example of Joseph is incorrect? Was the outcome of his policies as vice-regent in Egypt not what is mentioned in the article? If so, what was different?
Let's see:
Joseph develops and implements a brutal policy of exploitation, leading Egyptian farmers to sell their land, animals, and ultimately themselves in exchange for food.
You only read the passage that way if you already have a bent against the Jews.
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@reformed said:
Let's see:Joseph develops and implements a brutal policy of exploitation, leading Egyptian farmers to sell their land, animals, and ultimately themselves in exchange for food.
You only read the passage that way if you already have a bent against the Jews.
What do you think Joseph's policy should be called?
Did his policy not exploit the Egyptian farmers to sell land, animals and finally themselves to Pharaoh in exchange for food? Did Joseph organize a fond and then hand out to the farmers what he beforehand had collected from them as sort of a tax in goods rather than money? Or did he collect from the farmers as tax and then sell to the farmers what he had collected from them in the first place??
I don't have a bent against Jews, just as I don't have one against other people ... how would you want to read the passage instead?
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A drought in which most people are going to die is never an ideal situation. Joseph's wisdom, given to him by God provided a way whereby the people could be taxed in a way that provided for their future and maintained a system of distribution throughout the future by which they could be fed, maintain economic survival and not descend into government-less anarchy, starvation and death. And that was just one facet of what happened. But let me continue the first point.
In fact, God used a pure man of God, a chosen son to bring salvation to Egypt. His chosen people Israel were the means by which he brought the message and environment of salvation to the world for a couple thousands of years. After Christ came, and as the world expanded, that responsibility was also expanded to include and graft in the Gentiles.
We have no way of knowing, but I find it likely that if Jews were not presently occupying the land of Israel at its present incomplete locale, that the Muslim world would have descended into chaos and death and war--much like Syria today. God is still using Israel for salvation even of their enemies, even of those who hate them and wish them dead.
That is the goodness and grace of God.
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@GaoLu said:
A drought in which most people are going to die is never an ideal situation. Joseph's wisdom, given to him by God provided a way whereby the people could be taxed in a way that provided for their future and maintained a system of distribution throughout the future by which they could be fed, maintain economic survival and not descend into government-less anarchy, starvation and death. And that was just one facet of what happened.So the people paid taxes (giving food supplies to government be stored for times of drought) and when the time of drought came what they had given to be used in time of drought they had to buy again? government collecting double? Sounds like today in various places ... first we here pay into a state health fund and when time of need comes, all of a sudden many treatments for which such fund was to used are not covered by the fund and you have to pay once again while in the meantime a large number of folks "working" for the fund collect above average salaries and pensions.
But let me continue the first point.
In fact, God used a pure man of God, a chosen son to bring salvation to Egypt.Seems more like the Egyptians were exploited, as the policy of selling what had been collected from the people to provide in time of drought was used to "re-locate" Egyptian's personal wealth to Pharaoh.
It seems more that there was a different divine purpose behind it all ...as in the end much of that accumulated wealth seems to have made its way out of Egypt when the children of Israel finally left Egypt and exploited the Egyptians who suffered punishment for Pharaoh's refusal to just let them go ?
His chosen people Israel were the means by which he brought the message and environment of salvation to the world for a couple thousands of years. After Christ came, and as the world expanded, that responsibility was also expanded to include and graft in the Gentiles.
Where in Scripture do we read about the tribes if Israel bringing "the message and environment of salvation" (what would that have been?) "to the world"? Sounds like you think they sent out missionaries to other countries ... but did they?
We have no way of knowing, but I find it likely that if Jews were not presently occupying the land of Israel at its present incomplete locale, that the Muslim world would have descended into chaos and death and war--much like Syria today.
Syria was descended into war by outside powers as they moved their terrorist proxies from Libya to Syria in an attempt to destabilize the country under a pretense into a state of chaos and bomb it back into the middle ages (as they had done previously to other countries in the region as well. Simple facts, Gao_Lu.
Libya was stable and had the most advanced systems of healthcare and education in all of Africa, no chaos, no religiously fueled terrorism, etc .... but one big problem for the Western globalist dudes => the plans to exit from the petro-US$ and Western exploitation. USA/NATO started a war of aggression to destroy the country ... by the way, in accordance with a USA policy already stated a number of years before as plans were made to destroy 7 countries in the NearEast and Middle Eastern regions .. which process started with the destruction of Afghanistan, then Iraq, etc and included Syria and Iran as well.
Syria was a secular state in stable condition, where people - and especially Christians (!) could live in peace and pursue a normal life. But Syria's government did not want certain pipelines to be build, and Syria was declared "enemy" by the Zionists to the south. Syria was not destroyed because Russia this time did not just look on as it had with Libya. In case you haven't noticed => the USA and other military is totally illegally in Syria supporting ISIS and Al-Quaeda. Since they recognize that they basically lost this war, they now turn their attention for a new enemy at Iran and have begun to even evacuate ISIS terrorists with US helicopters so that their "precious good terrorists" won't meet their deserved fate of being eliminated.God is still using Israel for salvation even of their enemies, even of those who hate them and wish them dead.
The "Jews presently occupying the land of Israel at its present incomplete locale" have NOTHING to do with Biblical Israel in the first place. And surely, they do not believe in the God of the Bible and persecute followers of Messiah Jesus in their country quiet heavily.
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@Wolfgang said:
It seems more that there was a different divine purpose behind it all ...as in the end much of that accumulated wealth seems to have made its way out of Egypt when the children of Israel finally left Egypt and exploited the Egyptians who suffered punishment for Pharaoh's refusal to just let them go?
Now that is an interesting thought.
His chosen people Israel were the means by which he brought the message and environment of salvation to the world for a couple thousands of years. After Christ came, and as the world expanded, that responsibility was also expanded to include and graft in the Gentiles.
Where in Scripture do we read about the tribes if Israel bringing "the message and environment of salvation" (what would that have been?) "to the world"? Sounds like you think they sent out missionaries to other countries ... but did they?
I had in mind a fairly passive model, although proselytism was certainly known. Consider Ruth. And for missionaries, consider Jonah.
God is still using Israel for salvation even of their enemies, even of those who hate them and wish them dead.
The "Jews presently occupying the land of Israel at its present incomplete locale" have NOTHING to do with Biblical Israel in the first place.
We seem to see this differently and you clearly feel strongly about your view. Please consider that a strong Biblical case can be made for present-day Israel, in fact, being real Jews and possessing their God-given homeland.
And surely, they do not believe in the God of the Bible
Some are purely secular, but many really do seem to believe in the God of the OT.
and persecute followers of Messiah Jesus in their country quiet heavily.
That does occur. Yet there is also much freedom and missionaries both Jewish and Gentile move about openly.
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Anyone interested in the continuation article providing more historical facts and information on the background of events leading up to the World Wars
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@Wolfgang said:
Anyone interested in the continuation article providing more historical facts and information on the background of events leading up to the World WarsThanks for the post. I never understood that period in world history but came to question what I'd been taught. Mainly after seeing the system in action during the Vietnam War. As we began questioning that, everything else including religion came under the microscope as it remains today, especially in the media.
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@Wolfgang said:
Anyone interested in the continuation article providing more historical facts and information on the background of events leading up to the World WarsStop it! Stop it!
This is one more article as a Trojan Horse to blame the Jews for every war and to distract from America's historical dirty hands.
Wolfgang, why are you so obsessed with trying to blame and shame the Jews and the Land of Israel? Stop this! Don't do this to Israel. GaoLu, don't continue engaging this conversation that will lead to the smearing of Jews and Israel's name. Have we nothing else to talk about? Who is the say these are facts? Don't hold the Jews up like this. Is there anybody in CD loves the Jews and Israel? CM
Post edited by C Mc on -
@C_M_ said:
@Wolfgang said:
Anyone interested in the continuation article providing more historical facts and information on the background of events leading up to the World WarsStop it! Stop it!
This is one more article as a Trojan Horse to blame the Jews for every war and a distract from America's historical dirty hands.
Wolfgang, why are you so obsessed with trying to blame and shame the Jews and the Land of Israel? Stop this! Don't do this to Israel. GaoLu, don't continue this smearing of the name of the Jews and Israel. Have we nothing else to talk about? Who is the say these are facts? Do hold the Jews up like this. Is there anybody in CD loves the Jews and Israel? CM
In the bible, Jesus and believers in him are Israel. The broken off unbelievers are not. But will be reattached only through faith in Christ (Romans 11).
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@C_M_ said:
This is one more article as a Trojan Horse to blame the Jews for every war and a distract from America's historical dirty hands.???
Wolfgang, why are you so obsessed with trying to blame and shame the Jews and the Land of Israel? Stop this! Don't do this to Israel.
Excuse me, I am concerned with searching for truth, even in matters pertaining to politics, societies, cultures, etc.
Now, your posts displays signs of obsession, namely an obsession of sanctifying Zionist religion/ modern day Jews as if they were "holier than anyone else" by which you have been distracted from historical realities that would explain some of what is going on in geopolitical affairs and the fight for world dominion.
GaoLu, don't continue this smearing of the name of the Jews and Israel. Have we nothing else to talk about? Who is the say these are facts? Do hold the Jews up like this. Is there anybody in CD loves the Jews and Israel?
I love truth ... and regard all mankind as much as possible equally, in that no people is "by nature" (or whatever) better than any other ... and I have a look at deeds rather than words, since deeds usually reveal better what goals are really pursued.
Now, I admit, that many of the facts pointed out and sources mentioned in these articles rather clearly and plainly show a picture of modern day Jews and actions of Zionists during the last century which is different from how they would like to be viewed. -
Wolfgang,
What you're trying to say about Jews/Israel bring tears to my eyes. They have killed the Jews. Do you want to throw dirt on their memory too? CM@Wolfgang said: I love truth ... and regard all mankind as much as possible equally, in that no people is "by nature" (or whatever) better than any other ... and I have a look at deeds rather than words, since deeds usually reveal better what goals are really pursued.
Now, I admit, that many of the facts pointed out and sources mentioned in these articles rather clearly and plainly show a picture of modern day Jews and actions of Zionists during the last century which is different from how they would like to be viewed.Look at America! Why are you so skeptical of factual truth about America? CM
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@C_M_ said:
Wolfgang,
What you're trying to say about Jews/Israel bring tears to my eyes. They have killed the Jews. Do you want to throw dirt on their memory too? CM???? not sure, what you are trying to say or to what you are referring?
@Wolfgang said: I love truth ... and regard all mankind as much as possible equally, in that no people is "by nature" (or whatever) better than any other ... and I have a look at deeds rather than words, since deeds usually reveal better what goals are really pursued.
Now, I admit, that many of the facts pointed out and sources mentioned in these articles rather clearly and plainly show a picture of modern day Jews and actions of Zionists during the last century which is different from how they would like to be viewed.Look at America! Why are you so skeptical of factual truth about America? CM
To which factual truth are you referring?
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All of her nasty deeds: Wars, oppressions, Internment Camps, imprisoning children, the sale of weapons to her enemies, etc. You don't know this or you are not willing to accept this? America must come clean and do right by her people. Leave Israel alone! CM
The 6 million. Have you forgotten? CM
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@C_M_ said:
Look at America! Why are you so skeptical of factual truth about America? CM
To which factual truth are you referring?
All of her nasty deeds: Wars, oppressions, Internment Camps, imprisoning children, the sale of weapons to her enemies, etc. You don't know this or you are not willing to accept this? America must come clean and do right by her people. Leave Israel alone! CM
Oh dear ... and I thought I had been the one in the past who alone had pointed out at times some of the things to which you seem to allude ... when I mentioned things in that regard, the screams were loud and blatant about me spreading "conspiracy theories" and "lies" and me "hating the USA".
Seems like you made an unexplained switch as to who the "they" are being talked about ... in the context during the whole post the "they" were the Jews/Zionists ... and then you write "They have killed the Jews" ... the Jews killed the Jews?
How do "the 6 million" fit into the context of what is being talked about? who are the "they" who killed the Jews (the 6 million)? -
@Wolfgang said:
What you're trying to say about Jews/Israel bring tears to my eyes. They have killed the Jews. Do you want to throw dirt on their memory too? CM
???? not sure, what you are trying to say or to what you are referring?
The 6 million. Have you forgotten?
Seems like you made an unexplained switch as to who the "they" are being talked about ... in the context during the whole post the "they" were the Jews/Zionists ... and then you write "They have killed the Jews" ... the Jews killed the Jews?
How do "the 6 million" fit into the context of what is being talked about? who are the "they" who killed the Jews (the 6 million)?To whom does history say (independently/verifiable proof) killed 6 million Jews? CM
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Those who are all in such high favors for the modern day Zionist state of Israel may want to give the following article a read
Pandering to Israel - Time to cut the tie that binds by Philip Giraldi
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It seems to me, Israel has many friends and many people love Israel. Do I detect a little national envy?
CMPS. Many people love the U.S.A. and Germany; maybe not as much.
CM
