To the Remnant of CD

C Mc

Brethren,

Don't be in haste in your assumption that GaoLu is leaving.

• a. He only expressed his opinion vaguely of scenarios he wouldn't care to take part. It appears to be more hypothetical if anything. Many may be inclined to agree with him, but not with understanding because he spoke in such generalities. At best, in my view, he wants to say, what he can't legitimately or willing to say, in light of his own past dealings in these forums. Until he is specific, one can't draw any conclusions, even his departure. Notwithstanding, it's an, "I want your attention".

• b. However, it could be surmised that GaoLu wants and need to-be-wanted and appreciated. There are many breadcrumbs of such in many of his posts. No, I am not talking behind his back. He still has the opportunity, access and privilege to respond for himself. No surrogates or any acolytes needed. On the other hand, it could be that this is GaoLu's second attempt to project or send "dog whistles of the new CD demise. At this point and in my view, it's greatly exaggerated. It is documented in these forums that GaoLu wanted some of us gone believing that its the forum's only means to improve or attract others. In my view, I think it's far too wishful, arrogant, and self-righteous when viewed in full context CD history, especially recently.

• c. "Birds of a feather flocks together". Given that he had and are having contacts and communications with former CD Participates (past/recent) I would of his commitment to the new CD. He had always another forum to go to. Again, this is his right. As thing checks out, now us his time to make his move. At the same time, making it appears he's being forced or certain situation so unbearable, he had to leave.

• d. As Christians, you don't have to discontinue or feel ashamed to discuss politics. It's a part of your world. If you Christians can't discuss this topic, who can? Too many CD Users (pas and currents) have allowed souls to become contaminated political party and ideologies. This is unfortunate and sad. Our greatest loyalty should be to God and the sacred Word.

• e. Christian Debate is bigger than GaoLu. He's is not the end of all, if he decides to discontinue to participate (at least actively). He's not bounded or imprisoned by anyone for love or fee. He, like all users of these forums, is free to come and go as he pleases. If he claims American rights and the, loosely drafted, rules of CD, likewise, afford him this privilege. However, to insinuate that everyone who "left" in the past or leaves are good people Christians, escaping "hell", etc., and those left behind are corrupt, "bad", blind guides", uninformed, spiritually ignorant, etc. Or endorses David Taylor Jr.'s out-of-the door, denunciation of the new CD, re-enforced recently, as "False teachers" in a "cesspool".

• f. Just because many have allowed critical thoughts, of various stripes, to invade their souls and color their view of forums, don't adopt their worldview of CD. I still find these forums to hold out much promises and potentials for good. Is it perfect? No. Can it be improved? Yes. Is it beyond help? No. Can God use remaining users, yes! Let us embody this vision and don't let others define it otherwise, especially those who have "left" or choose to no longer participate.

Please note:

Once a user of CD, you're always one. As a user or one who has access to the forums at least as a reader if not as a participant. e.g. David Taylor, Jr. He chimes when called or when contemplating a return. See my response to his efforts.
No user to my knowledge has been removed administratively from this CD or the old one. Nor has anyone has been denied access as a reader. This is why I say no one really leaves.

One may choose not to post (participate), which is his or her freedom of choice. They don't have to be sorry nor do you have to be sorry they made a decision to do. Let's be respectful of people's choice and the exercise of the freedom afforded them.

Everyone that stopped participating or "left" CD didn't do so because he or she was disgruntled. Some may try to convey this, but it's not true. Everyone who "left" the old CD (and this one) did so on his or her own free will. If they are half honest, they will tell you so, for the reasons mentioned above. I don't care what they said in them apparent accusatory finger-pointing, labeling, shaming or blaming of others.

Many people "leave" CD (old/current) because they can't control, the rules, the conversation or other people. This, too, is sad and disappointing. Some people have to be totally in charge and will make a poor team-players on any field or group.
Divergent views are not a sin. They should be embraced and celebrated. At the same time, a consensus can be drawn in light of the Word through the Holy Spirit, prayer and humility.

Be responsible and exercise discipline reading and responding to posts. I reject the argument or accusations that there is too much discussion of politics. This is the times we live in, especially, for Americans. The USA has a President who's unorthodox in his management; whose skills and mental stability is questioned by many world-leaders around the world; whose seems to invite strife, division, in a context of egotism on steroids with childish taunts and insults; but above all, he's one who's extremely allergic to the truth. Given this reality, is it realistic to expect the bulk of the discussion to be otherwise? The lead discussions are the interest of the current users.

Say what you will or may, I will stay. Don't forget, "Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground." CM

reformed

You really spent a whole thread to attack a current and former member? Really? Obsessed much?

C Mc

@reformed said:
You really spent a whole thread to attack a current and former member? Really? Obsessed much?

1. No, you're sharing it too. However, I thank you for your response. I hope Dave L, BK. Mitchell, Wolfgang, Jan, or any silent readers of CD will leave a comment. Besides, I can't stop anyone, even if I wanted too.
2. What I post is more of a reflection as well as a forward look. It's not an attack. You don't see any facts?
3. Besides, GaoLu is free to respond in a post or a PM.
4. I think there needs to be a greater effort to respect, appreciate, and maintain the new CD in light of all the work Jan put into it. I was taught a long time ago, that "any old 'jack-ass' can kick down a barn, but it takes planning, skills, and cooperation to build one".
5. What you don't find as facts, am I not entitled to my opinions?
6. Notwithstanding, you and a few others seemed to reject, with contempt, Bill's motto to "criticize ideas and not people". Have I violated an unknown rule?
7. I reject the constant stealthy drive to devalue some posters' contribution and a drift toward a respecter of persons.
8. Except for the typos, I stand behind this post.

Be Blessed! I remain. CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:

@reformed said:
You really spent a whole thread to attack a current and former member? Really? Obsessed much?

1. No, you're sharing it too. However, I thank you for your response. I hope Dave L, BK. Mitchell, Wolfgang, Jan, or any silent readers of CD will leave a comment. Besides, I can't stop anyone, even if I wanted too.
2. What I post is more of a reflection as well as a forward look. It's not an attack. You don't see any facts?

I see some facts mixed with a ton of speculation and character assassination.

3. Besides, GaoLu is free to respond in a post or a PM.

Your point?

4. I think there needs to be a greater effort to respect, appreciate, and maintain the new CD in light of all the work Jan put into it. I was taught a long time ago, that "any old 'jack-ass' can kick down a barn, but it takes planning, skills, and cooperation to build one".

Ok....

5. What you don't find as facts, am I not entitled to my opinions?

Never said that.

6. Notwithstanding, you and a few others seemed to reject, with contempt, Bill's motto to "criticize ideas and not people". Have I violated an unknown rule?

Bill rejects that own idea as he doesn't even follow it himself.

7. I reject the constant stealthy drive to devalue some posters' contribution and a drift toward a respecter of persons.

?

8. Except for the typos, I stand behind this post.

And I stand behind my response.

Be Blessed! I remain. CM

C Mc

Reformed, given that we're in general agreement, how can we improve CD moving forward? CM

C Mc

For those who remain, who will speak for GaoLu? Better yet, through whom will GaoLu speak? CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:
For those who remain, who will speak for GaoLu? Better yet, through whom will GaoLu speak? CM

???

C Mc

Ha, Ha, Ha, ... CM

Dave_L

I like CM's format of posting solutions and answering questions. If you disagree put up an alternative view and keep things fresh. Also it seems politics might be more interesting if we still don't agree after a few questions, put up an alternative view and keep it fresh. Posts that linger become routine and boring leading to frustration.

reformed

@Dave_L said:
I like CM's format of posting solutions and answering questions. If you disagree put up an alternative view and keep things fresh. Also it seems politics might be more interesting if we still don't agree after a few questions, put up an alternative view and keep it fresh. Posts that linger become routine and boring leading to frustration.

Says the king of saying the same thing over and over and OVER again.

Dave_L

@reformed said:

@Dave_L said:
I like CM's format of posting solutions and answering questions. If you disagree put up an alternative view and keep things fresh. Also it seems politics might be more interesting if we still don't agree after a few questions, put up an alternative view and keep it fresh. Posts that linger become routine and boring leading to frustration.

Says the king of saying the same thing over and over and OVER again.

Why are we discussing problems instead of solutions?

C Mc

@Dave_L said:

@reformed said:

@Dave_L said:
I like CM's format of posting solutions and answering questions. If you disagree put up an alternative view and keep things fresh. Also it seems politics might be more interesting if we still don't agree after a few questions, put up an alternative view and keep it fresh. Posts that linger become routine and boring leading to frustration.

Says the king of saying the same thing over and over and OVER again.

Why are we discussing problems instead of solutions?

Thanks for your response. We want to identify problems and explore solutions. Everyone has the option of keeping silent, going to another forum, or cursing the dark. How can we accept a person's (GaoLu) choice to be in a self-imposed Posting Purgatory and make way for others to come aboard? I remain. CM

C Mc

Brethren,

Who or what is the real authority in addressing Bible questions and studies in CD?
Who or what is the real authority in addressing non-biblical topics in these forums?
Is every man a law unto himself? Are repeating the same things because we don't know or understand, refuse to accept the truth, and hope to convince others to think differently?

What is our purpose of sharing, to witness, convert or to pervert? Are we trying to stimulate thoughts or to broaden one's horizon thoughts and understanding? Are seeking unity of uniformity (thought, understanding, approaches, faith or worldview)?
just a few thoughts as we move forward. CM

Dave_L

We certainly are not preaching to the choir here. But it's a good thing to compare our diverse beliefs. If we focus on the positives, I think they far outweigh the negatives. I appreciate the amount of work involved in many of the posts. I don't know too much about politics, but we have a very broad view of current issues at our disposal here. Thanks to all who post on these matters.

C Mc

OUR INVITATION

Oh, where, Oh, where is Bro, GaoLu?
How do you do?

It's just a line, to say you're on our minds.
The doors remain opened to drop a few lines.

You may read in silence if you will or may;
We hope to hear from you someday.

GaoLu, continue to study the many topics, you were unable to respond in true;
Share a thought from the Word, although with us, you said, you're through.

I know, we may have many differences and distances between us;
Let's not continue a fuss, but the Word discuss. CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:

OUR INVITATION

Oh, where, Oh, where is Bro, GaoLu?
How do you do?

It's just a line, to say you're on our minds.
The doors remain opened to drop a few lines.

You may read in silence if you will or may;
We hope to hear from you someday.

GaoLu, continue to study the many topics, you were unable to respond in true;
Share a thought from the Word, although with us, you said, you're through.

I know, we may have many differences and distances between us;
Let's not continue a fuss, but the Word discuss. CM

He got tired of the trolls, I'm about there myself.

C Mc

@reformed said:

He got tired of the trolls, I'm about there myself.

I am afraid, the many trolls people fear so much, is in the mirror. However, GaoLu can speak for himself. A question in my mind, if "Christians" can't deal with these mysterious "trolls", how would one deal in the real world? If all the Christians keep to themselves, what kind of a witness is that? Jesus dealt with "scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites". Why do today's Christians want to isolate themselves on online forums, in churches, communities, etc.? The old saying that goes...

if you find a forum without a "troll", you're on the wrong forum. CM

• PS. Reformed, don't be a tail, be a "head". Don't be a follower, be a leader. Besides, you're too young to follow behind GaoLu. CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:

@reformed said:

He got tired of the trolls, I'm about there myself.

I am afraid, the many trolls people fear so much, is in the mirror. However, GaoLu can speak for himself. A question in my mind, if "Christians" can't deal with these mysterious "trolls", how would one deal in the real world? If all the Christians keep to themselves, what kind of a witness is that? Jesus dealt with "scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites". Why do today's Christians want to isolate themselves on online forums, in churches, communities, etc.? The old saying that goes...

if you find a forum without a "troll", you're on the wrong forum. CM

• PS. Reformed, don't be a tail, be a "head". Don't be a follower, be a leader. Besides, you're too young to follow behind GaoLu. CM

Newsflash, YOU are the troll. There is no mystery.

C Mc

@reformed said:

@C_M_ said:

@reformed said:

He got tired of the trolls, I'm about there myself.

I am afraid, the many trolls people fear so much, is in the mirror. However, GaoLu can speak for himself. A question in my mind, if "Christians" can't deal with these mysterious "trolls", how would one deal in the real world? If all the Christians keep to themselves, what kind of a witness is that? Jesus dealt with "scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites". Why do today's Christians want to isolate themselves on online forums, in churches, communities, etc.? The old saying that goes...

if you find a forum without a "troll", you're on the wrong forum. CM

• PS. Reformed, don't be a tail, be a "head". Don't be a follower, be a leader. Besides, you're too young to follow behind GaoLu. CM

Newsflash, YOU are the troll. There is no mystery.

Wow, what "Lashon Ha-Ra" (luh-SHOHN hah-RAH)! As one says, so is he. I trust you would be rewarded by those whom you represent. As GaoLu would recommend, did you run your so-called "Newsflash" by your wife?

Now that you have shown that you have "chutzpah", to say for a second time, what others hinted about, please re-read my post and answer the questions I raised above.

PS. Your troll tactic won't steal my joy. Shalom! CM

C Mc

Brethren,

I raised this thread and the questions above as a concerned user of the New CD. I am not the lead administrator. I have not consulted with Jan nor have I been asked, paid or promised anything, now or in the future, by him or a surrogate. I seek no status, title, or position in these forums or any other. I do this purely, out of appreciation, for the work of Jan and the potential these forums have to offer.

Help me to Identify, analyze, and synthesize. Putting everything on the table is a good place to start. Sometimes, it a greater challenge to revive something than to build it anew. Regardless, this task is before us.

1. Is there a problem?
2. Have we really identify the problem?
3. Is the problem real or ginned-up?
4. Is the problem the number of people?
5. Do we need more people or new people?
6. Is the problem people or content?
7. Is the problem content or format? Or, is it both?

Where are the Christian Debaters? To begin answering this question, please read the exchanges between CM and Mitchell.

1. Are there a number of people waiting to come aboard the New CD?
2. Who are they?
3. Where are they?
4. How long are they willing to stay?

I am looking for builders of barns, not jackasses to kick them down. Please identify yourself, so you can be properly assigned. All have value and there is something for all to do, even if your actions is the latter. "Let's build together."

We who remain, are we more interested in including or excluding? If it's:

• Inclusion-- Whom and when? What skills are brought to the table?
• Exclusion -- Whom do you have in mind? For what reason(s)? Is it assured the apparent problem will be fixed?

Do you really care about CD's future and want to move things forward? Come now, let's reason together. CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:
Brethren,

I raised this thread and the questions above as a concerned user of the New CD. I am not the lead administrator. I have not consulted with Jan nor have I been asked, paid or promised anything, now or in the future, by him or a surrogate. I seek no status, title, or position in these forums or any other. I do this purely, out of appreciation, for the work of Jan and the potential these forums have to offer.

Help me to Identify, analyze, and synthesize. Putting everything on the table is a good place to start. Sometimes, it a greater challenge to revive something than to build it anew. Regardless, this task is before us.

1. Is there a problem?
2. Have we really identify the problem?
3. Is the problem real or ginned-up?
4. Is the problem the number of people?
5. Do we need more people or new people?
6. Is the problem people or content?
7. Is the problem content or format? Or, is it both?

Where are the Christian Debaters? To begin answering this question, please read the exchanges between CM and Mitchell.

1. Are there a number of people waiting to come aboard the New CD?
2. Who are they?
3. Where are they?
4. How long are they willing to stay?

I am looking for builders of barns, not jackasses to kick them down. Please identify yourself, so you can be properly assigned. All have value and there is something for all to do, even if your actions is the latter. "Let's build together."

We who remain, are we more interested in including or excluding? If it's:

• Inclusion-- Whom and when? What skills are brought to the table?
• Exclusion -- Whom do you have in mind? For what reason(s)? Is it assured the apparent problem will be fixed?

Do you really care about CD's future and want to move things forward? Come now, let's reason together. CM

It amazes me that you try to put forth this image of wanting people to come together when you so often politicize things that would bring people together.

I doubt there are many people who would come here. It is divisive. I'm almost at my limit.

C Mc

@reformed said:

It amazes me that you try to put forth this image of wanting people to come together when you so often politicize things that would bring people together.

I doubt there are many people who would come here. It is divisive. I'm almost at my limit.

Hold up, Sir. The offer stands independent of me.

@reformed said: "when you so often politicize things..."

I must be labeled, called names, and punished because I can separate my theology from my discussion of politics? Why do you form such a bad image of me? No one in these forms has ever said or were afraid to say these things to me. I think you're angry about something else. What I have said is opened for all to read. I don't deserve such unkindness from you. I think I conducted myself responsibly on these forums. CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:

@reformed said:

It amazes me that you try to put forth this image of wanting people to come together when you so often politicize things that would bring people together.

I doubt there are many people who would come here. It is divisive. I'm almost at my limit.

Hold up, Sir. The offer stands independent of me.

@reformed said: "when you so often politicize things..."

I must be labeled, called names, and punished because I can separate my theology from my discussion of politics? Why do you form such a bad image of me? No one in these forms has ever said or were afraid to say these things to me. I think you're angry about something else. What I have said is opened for all to read. I don't deserve such unkindness from you. I think I conducted myself responsibly on these forums. CM

You separate your theology from your discussion of politics? Good grief, ever thought that is the problem? I have a bad image of you because you are divisive, two-faced, deceitful, don't act in good faith, and you try to be someone you are not. I see right through it. Sorry if you are hurt because I say to your face what others were thinking already. It's not unkindness, it is statement of fact. You don't conduct yourself responsibly, you try to act like you are everyone's mother. Do this, so and so, do that so and so, you shouldn't be like that so and so, all the while you do the same things and give yourself a pass. I'm sick of the two-faced actions of you and Bill.

Maybe you are the same person after all. If not physically, metaphysically you are one in the same.

C Mc

Reformed,
I can compare you with two other people if I choose to do so. I am not going to buy into your distractions. Your response signals the role you're willing to play in moving CD forward. Regardless, of what I think or say, this thread was started and the offer (opportunity) were made to include and to rebuild. Please respect the purpose of this thread. CM

PS. May I suggest you take up your frustration (whatever it is) with Bill directly and not confuse him with me. CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:
Reformed,
I can compare you with two other people if I choose to do so. I am not going to buy into your distractions. Your response signals the role you're willing to play in moving CD forward. Regardless, of what I think or say, this thread was started and the offer (opportunity) were made to include and to rebuild. Please respect the purpose of this thread. CM

PS. May I suggest you take up your frustration (whatever it is) with Bill directly and not confuse him with me. CM

I'm just pointing out your two-faced approach. That is all.

C Mc

@reformed said:

I'm just pointing out your two-faced approach. That is all.

Your truth is for another time and another place, but not here. CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:

@reformed said:

I'm just pointing out your two-faced approach. That is all.

Your truth is for another time and another place, but not here. CM

It's relevant here whether you like it or not. You are not King of CD or my Mother.

C Mc

You make a point. To your chagrin, this thread is to build with a forward look. CM

reformed

@C_M_ said:
You make a point. To your chagrin, this thread is to build with a forward look. CM

Here's a look forward. Don't politicize everything. Be HONEST.

C Mc

Mr. Reformed,
If you want to make a contribution to the conversation of possible, practical, reasonable suggestions for improving or moving CD forward, thank you. However, you don't have to kick-up mire and dirt to do so. This will help me and others to take your suggestions seriously. Reformed, you do want your points to be taken seriously, even if you choose not to remain active? CM

PS. Reformed, I don't know if your real mom ever said this to you, "don't ever burn the bridge behind you; you may have to cross over it again". If not, give it some consideration. If so, take heed. CM

Jan

Sorry I had to close this thread and delete the tail of the discussion.
Brothers, remember that this is a public forum, and therefore not the place to expose any forum member's personal affairs.