Trinity--Making the Case--Pro and Con

C Mc

Brethren,
Please help me to compile resources by individuals who make compelling cases, Pro (for) and Con (against) the Trinity. Your contribution to identify books, authors, organizations, etc.; past and present, that support either side (Anti-Trinitarian or Trinitarianism would be most appreciated. We have limited views, so far, on CD. Let's broaden the tent of knowledge and understanding. Wouldn't it be nice to add other voices to the conversation, given we can't have them here live?

As a reminder, see below, the two positions:

1. Trinitarianism is the orthodox belief that there is but one living and true God. Nevertheless, this one God is a unity of three persons, who are of one substance, power and eternity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

2. Anti-Trinitarians are people who oppose the doctrine of the Trinity for various reasons. They may be Arians, semi-Arians, or hold other views that deny the Trinity.

Thanks for your consideration. CM

Dave_L

I think the following statement on the trinity speaks volumes.

THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION

CHAPTER III 

Of God, His Unity and Trinity 

GOD IS ONE. We believe and teach that God is one in essence or nature, subsisting in himself, all sufficient in himself, invisible, incorporeal, immense, eternal, Creator of all things both visible and invisible, the greatest good, living, quickening and preserving all things, omnipotent and supremely wise, kind and merciful, just and true. Truly we detest many gods because it is expressly written: “The Lord your God is one Lord” (Deut.6:4). “I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex. 20:2-3). “I am the Lord, and there is no other god besides me. Am I not the Lord, and there is no other God beside me? A righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me” (Isa. 45:5, 21). “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness” (Ex. 34:6). 

GOD IS THREE. Notwithstanding we believe and teach that the same immense, one and indivisible God is in person inseparably and without confusion distinguished as Father, Son and Holy Spirit so, as the Father has begotten the Son from eternity, the Son is begotten by an ineffable generation, and the holy Spirit truly proceeds from them both, and the same from eternity and is to be worshipped with both. 

Thus there are not three gods, but three persons, cosubstantial, coeternal, and coequal; distinct with respect to hypostases, and with respect to order, the one preceding the other yet without any inequality. For according to the nature or essence they are so joined together that they are one God, and the divine nature is common to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 

For Scripture has delivered to us a manifest distinction of persons, the angel saying, among other things, to the Blessed Virgin, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God” (Luke 1:35). And also in the baptism of Christ a voice is heard from heaven concerning Christ, saying, “This is my beloved Son” (Mat. 3:17). The Holy Spirit also appeared in the form of a dove (John 1:32). And when the Lord himself commanded the apostles to baptize, he commanded them to baptize “in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19). Elsewhere in the Gospel he said: “The Father will send the Holy Spirit in my name” (John 14:26), and again he said: “When the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me,” etc. (John 15:26). In short, we receive the Apostles’ Creed because it delivers to us the true faith. 

HERESIES. Therefore we condemn the Jews and Mohammedans, and all those who blaspheme that sacred and adorable Trinity. We also condemn all heresies and heretics who teach that the Son and Holy Spirit are God in name only, and also that there is something created and subservient, or subordinate to another in the Trinity, and that there is something unequal in it, a greater or a less, something corporeal or corporeally conceived, something different with respect to character or will, something mixed or solitary, as if the Son and Holy Spirit were the affections and properties of one God the Father, as the Monarchians, Novatians, Praxeas, Patripassians, Sabellius, Paul of Samosata, Aetius, Macedonius, Anthropomorphites, Arius, and such like, have thought. 
 

Various authors. THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION Trinity.

C Mc

Dave,

A hungry man in search of food must always look up, around, and behind him before taking what seems to be free and accessible. It might be a trap. Just a word of caution. Here is a little background to "The Second Helvetic confession."

Covenant theology was a view of man's election, largely the work of Johannes Cocceius [Koch](1603-1699), a Dutch Calvinist who had been influenced by the later writings of Melanchthon and consequently sought to find a softer alternative to the neo-Augustinian determinism of the Reformers.

"The Second Helvetic confession" is the work of Johann Heinrich Bullinger (1504-1575). "Federal theology" was a post-Reformation development especially discernible in the thought of Bullinger, Polanus, Gomarus, Cloppenburg, and Cocceius, and Ryrie traces shreds of this thought even farther back to Hyperius, Olevianus, Eglinus, and William Ames (1576-1633), a time frame spanning from 1511-1633.

All of these theologians were minor or secondary Reformers, but through studying with Ames, Cocceius found what he considered to be a helpful vehicle (in covenant theology) for fighting predestination. Be aware that "Federal Theology", via the Westminster Confession, came to America with the Puritans.

The Reformed confessions are a little more than 30. They don't all have the same degree of authority and recognition. None of them holds the commanding position of the Augsburg Confession in the Lutheran Church. The most influential are the Heidelberg or Palatinate Catechism, the Thirty-nine Articles, and the Westminster Confession. It should be noted that the Second Helvetic Confession and the Canons of Dort were less adapted for popular use. CM

Sources:
-- Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, s.v. "Johannes Cocceius."
-- Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today, p. 108.
-- New International Dictionary of the Christian Church, s.v. "Johann Heinrich Bullinger," by Robert C. Walton.

Dave_L

@C_M_ said:
Dave,

A hungry man in search of food must always look up, around, and behind him before taking what seems to be free and accessible. It might be a trap. Just a word of caution. Here is a little background to "The Second Helvetic confession."

Covenant theology was a view of man's election, largely the work of Johannes Cocceius [Koch](1603-1699), a Dutch Calvinist who had been influenced by the later writings of Melanchthon and consequently sought to find a softer alternative to the neo-Augustinian determinism of the Reformers.

"The Second Helvetic confession" is the work of Johann Heinrich Bullinger (1504-1575). "Federal theology" was a post-Reformation development especially discernible in the thought of Bullinger, Polanus, Gomarus, Cloppenburg, and Cocceius, and Ryrie traces shreds of this thought even farther back to Hyperius, Olevianus, Eglinus, and William Ames (1576-1633), a time frame spanning from 1511-1633.

All of these theologians were minor or secondary Reformers, but through studying with Ames, Cocceius found what he considered to be a helpful vehicle (in covenant theology) for fighting predestination. Be aware that "Federal Theology", via the Westminster Confession, came to America with the Puritans.

The Reformed confessions are a little more than 30. They don't all have the same degree of authority and recognition. None of them holds the commanding position of the Augsburg Confession in the Lutheran Church. The most influential are the Heidelberg or Palatinate Catechism, the Thirty-nine Articles, and the Westminster Confession. It should be noted that the Second Helvetic Confession and the Canons of Dort were less adapted for popular use. CM

Sources:
-- Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, s.v. "Johannes Cocceius."
-- Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today, p. 108.
-- New International Dictionary of the Christian Church, s.v. "Johann Heinrich Bullinger," by Robert C. Walton.

Do you disagree with the doctrine of the trinity as set forth in any of the Reformed Confessions?

I'm not Reformed, nor am I involved with covenant theology, nor am I a Calvinist. But I fill my plate from a wide swath of Christendom. And the Second Helvetic Confession gives me one of the clearest statements on the trinity yet. To me it is a treasure I wanted to share with you and others.

I also would like to thank you for posting some interesting topics and challenges.

C Mc

@Dave_L said:

Do you disagree with the doctrine of the trinity as set forth in any of the Reformed Confessions?

Why attack the messenger when you should be attacking the message?

My Dear Brother, Dave,

I am sorry you missed my point above. I simply sort to convey for one to be aware of history, connections and that the Reformation is a work in progress. What I shared was not attacks, but facts.

Moving away from the topic, a bit, but facts nevertheless, is that The Creeds of Christendom supports the Perpetuity of the Law. Yes, the Ten-commandment Moral Law, reflective of God's character. Needless to say, these principles are **not temporal or situational but **absolute, unchangeable, and of permanent validity for humanity. Christians through the centuries have firmly supported the perpetuity of God's law, strongly affirming its continuous validity. The historic confessions of faith upholding its validity are:

• The Waldensian Catechism, c. A.D. 1500
• Luther's Small Catechism, A.D. 1529
• The Anglican Catechism, A.D. 1549 and 1662
• The Scottish Confession of Faith, A.D. 1560 (Reformed)
• The Heidelberg Catechism, A.D. 1563 (Reformed)
• The Second Helvetic Confession, A.D. 1566 (Reformed)
• The Thirty-nine Articles of Religion, A.D. 1571 (Church of England)
• The Formula of Concord, A.D. 1576 (Lutheran)
• The Irish Articles of Faith, A.D. 1615 (Irish Episcopal Church)
• The Westminster Confession of Faith, A.D. 1647
• The Westminster Shorter Catechism, A.D. 1647
• The Confessions of the Waldenses, A.D. 1655
• The Savory Declaration, A.D. 1658 (Congregational)
• The Confession of the Society of Friends, A.D. 1675 (Quakers)
• The Philadelphia Confession, A.D. 1688 (Baptist)
• The Twenty-five Articles of Religion, A.D. 1784 (Methodist)
• The New Hampshire Conference, A.D. 1833 (Baptist)
• The Longer Catechism of the Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church, A.D. 1839 (Greek-Russian Church).

For now, peaceful understanding. CM

See, The Creeds of Christendom, ed. Philip Schaff, rev. by David S. Schaff (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983), vols. 1-3.

Dave_L

If you re-read my post, you'll see I edited it after you replied to it. Maybe we can better appreciate each other's views based on my later version.

C Mc

@Dave_L said:
If you re-read my post, you'll see I edited it after you replied to it. Maybe we can better appreciate each other's views basen on my later version.

Yes, message received. I sent my post not being aware of what you sent. Thanks, Dave

C Mc

THE TWENTY-FIVE ARTICLES OF AFFIRMATION each with accompanying Scripture proofs. They lay out the boundaries of the biblical teaching on the person and work of Christ; hopefully, lead to deeper biblical teaching on Christ.

• Article 1 serves as the preface, affirming the incarnation.
• Article 2 asserts Christ’s true deity.
• Articles 3–5 lay out the Bible’s two-nature Christology.
• Articles 6–9 unfold the true humanity of Christ.
• Articles 10–22 turn from the person of Christ to the work of Christ. These begin with affirming the doctrines of salvation and end with delineations of the threefold office of Christ.
• Articles 23–25 turn to matters regarding the second coming of Christ and the eternal state.

Article 1
We affirm that Jesus Christ is the incarnation in history of the eternal Word, or Logos, of God, the second person of the Holy Trinity.

-- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth (John 1:1, 14). See also Ps. 110:1; Matt. 3:17; 8:29; 16:16; Mark 1:1, 11; 15:39; Luke 22:70; John 10:30; 20:28; Gal. 4:4; Phil. 2:6; Col. 2:9; Heb. 5:7; 1 John 5:20.

Article 2
We affirm that Jesus’ divine nature is consubstantial (homoousios) and therefore coequal and coeternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

-- Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). See also John 3:15–16; 4:14; 6:54; 10:28; Rom. 5:21; 6:23; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 2:18; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Peter 5:10; Jude 1:21.

Article 3
We affirm, with the Nicene and Chalcedonian Creeds, that Jesus Christ is both truly God and truly man, two natures in one person.

-- For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily (Col. 2:9). See also Luke 1:35; John 10:30; Rom. 9:5; 1 Tim. 3:16; 1 Peter 3:18.

Article 4
We affirm the hypostatic union, that the two natures of Christ are united in His one divine person without mixture, confusion, division, or separation.

-- Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 16:16–17). See also Luke 1:35, 43; John 1:1, 3; 8:58; 17:5; Acts 20:28; Rom. 1:3; 4:1; 9:5; 2 Cor. 8:9; Col. 2:9; 1 Tim. 3:16; 1 Peter 3:18; Jude 1:4; Rev. 1:8, 17; 22:13.

Article 5
We affirm that in the incarnation both divine and human natures retain their own attributes and remain intact.

-- Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men (Phil. 2:5–7). See also Matt. 9:10; 16:16; 19:28; John 1:1; 11:27, 35; 20:28; Rom. 1:3–4, 9:5; Eph. 1:20–22; Col. 1:16–17; 2:9–10; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 1:3, 8–9; 1 Peter 3:18; 2 Peter 1:1.

Article 6
We affirm that Jesus is the perfect and supreme image of God, and that to be truly human is to be conformed to His image.
-- He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him (Col. 1:15–16). See also Rom. 8:29; 2 Cor. 4:4–6; Eph. 4:20–24; Heb. 1:3–4.

Article 7
We affirm that as truly man, Christ possesses all the natural limitations and common infirmities of human nature and that He is like us in all respects except for sin.

--Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. (Heb. 2:17–18). See also Mic. 5:2; Luke 2:52; Rom. 8:3; Gal. 4:4; Phil. 2:5–8; Heb. 4:15.

Article 8
We affirm that the historical Jesus was in His humanity, by the power of the Holy Spirit, both miraculously conceived of the substance and born of the Virgin Mary.

-- In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary (Luke 1:26–27). See also Matt. 1:23; Luke 1:31, 35; Rom. 1:3; Gal. 4:4.

Article 9
We affirm that Jesus is the second or new Adam who succeeded in His task at every point where the first Adam failed.

-- Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom. 5:12–21). See also 1 Cor. 15:22, 45–49; Eph. 2:14–16.

Article 10
We affirm that Jesus completely fulfilled the law’s demands by both His active and passive obedience and that He bore the penalty for our sin by His sinless life and His death on the cross.

-- For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous (Rom. 5:19). See also Matt. 3:15; John 8:29; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 2:8; Heb. 5:8.

Article 11
We affirm that Jesus is the sole mediator between God and men.

-- For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim. 2:5). See also Job 33:23–28; John 14:6; Heb. 9:15; 12:24.

Article 12
We affirm that on the cross Jesus made a substitutionary atonement for sin, satisfying the wrath and justice of God.

-- Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus (Rom. 3:25–26). See also Isa. 53; Rom. 5:6, 8, 15; 6:10; 7:4; 8:34; 14:9, 15; 1 Cor. 15:3; Eph. 5:2; 1 Thess. 5:10; 2 Tim. 2:11; Heb. 2:17; 9:14–15; 10:14; 1 Peter 2:24–25; 3:18; 1 John 2:2; 4:10.

Article 13
We affirm that because of Christ’s life of obedience and death, our sin is imputed to Him and His righteousness is imputed to us by faith.

-- For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (2 Cor. 5:21). See also Matt. 5:20; Rom. 3:21–22; 4:11; 5:18; 1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 9:9; Eph. 6:14; Phil. 1:11; 3:9; Heb. 12:23.

Article 14
We affirm the doctrine of justification by faith alone, that a sinner is declared righteous before God by faith alone in the person and work of Christ alone, apart from any personal merit or works. We further affirm that to deny the doctrine of justification by faith alone is to deny the gospel.

-- Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:1). See also Luke 18:14; Rom. 3:24; 4:5; 5:10; 8:30; 10:4, 10; 1 Cor. 6:11; 2 Cor. 5:19, 21; Gal. 2:16–17; 3:11, 24; 5:4; Eph. 1:7; Titus 3:5, 7.

Article 15
We affirm that on the third day Jesus rose from the dead for our justification and that He was seen in the flesh by many.

-- For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve (1 Cor. 15:3–5). See also Isa. 53; Matt. 16:21; 26:32; 28:1–10; John 21:14; Acts 1:9–11; 2:25, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; Rom. 4:24–25; 6:9–10; Eph. 4:8–10.

Article 16
We affirm that Jesus is the firstfruits of the resurrection, that He has conquered both sin and death, and that we too will rise again in newness of life.

-- But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. … “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” (1 Cor. 15:20, 55). See also Rom. 5:10; 6:4, 8, 11; 10:9; 1 Cor. 15:23; 2 Cor. 1:9; 4:10–11; Eph. 2:6; Col. 2:12; 2 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 2:9, 14; 1 John 3:14; Rev. 14:4; 20:14.

Article 17
We affirm that Jesus ascended to His heavenly throne at the right hand of God the Father, that He is presently reigning as king, and that He will return visibly in power and glory.

-- So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven” (Acts 1:6–11). See also Luke 24:50–53; Acts 1:22; 2:33–35; Eph. 4:8–10; 1 Tim. 3:16.

Article 18
We affirm that Jesus poured out His Spirit on the day of Pentecost, and that in His present session Jesus is building His church, of which He is the supreme head and only king.

-- And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church (Eph. 1:22). See also Acts 2:33; 1 Cor. 11:3–5; Eph. 4:15; 5:23; Col. 1:18.

Article 19
We affirm the mediatorial role of Jesus as Prophet, Priest, and King.

-- Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs (Heb. 1:1–4). See also Luke 1:33; John 1:1–14; Acts 3:22; Col. 1:15; Heb. 5:5, 6.

Article 20
We affirm that as Prophet, Jesus proclaimed the will of God, prophesied future events, and is in Himself the fulfillment of God’s promises.

-- And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers. But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he thus fulfilled. Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago. Moses said, “The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you” (Acts 3:17–22). See also Matt. 20:17; 24:3; 26:31, 34, 64; Mark 1:14–15; Luke 4:18–19, 21; John 13:36; 21:22; 1 Cor. 1:20; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 19:10.

Article 21
We affirm that Jesus is our Great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, making the perfect sacrifice on our behalf and continuing to intercede for us before the Father.

-- For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him (Heb. 9:24–28). See also John 1:36; 19:28–30; Acts 8:32; 1 Cor. 5:7; Heb. 2:17–18; 4:14–16; 7:25; 10:12, 26; 1 Peter 1:19; Rev. 5:6, 8, 12–13; 6:1, 16; 7:9–10, 14, 17; 8:1; 12:11; 13:8; 15:3.

Article 22
We affirm that as King, Jesus supremely reigns over all earthly and supernatural powers now and forever.

-- For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet (1 Cor. 15:25). See also Ps. 110; Matt. 28:18–20; Luke 1:32; 2:11; Acts 2:25, 29, 34; 4:25; 13:22, 34, 36; 15:16; Rom. 1:3; 2 Tim. 2:8; Heb. 4:7; Rev. 3:7; 5:5; 22:16.

Article 23
We affirm that Jesus Christ will come again in glory to judge all peoples and will finally vanquish all His enemies, destroy death, and usher in the new heavens and earth in which righteousness will reign.

-- And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead (Acts 10:42). See also John 12:48; 14:3; Acts 7:7; 17:31; 2 Tim. 4:1, 8.

Article 24
We affirm that those who believe in the name of Jesus will be welcomed into His eternal kingdom, but those who do not believe in Jesus will suffer eternal conscious punishment in hell.

-- The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear (Matt. 13:41–43). See also Isa. 25:6–9; 65:17–25; 66:21–23; Dan. 7:13–14; Matt. 5:29–30; 10:28; 18:8–9;
Mark 9:42–49; Luke 1:33; 12:5; John 18:36; Col. 1:13–14; 2 Thess. 1:5–10; 2 Tim. 4:1, 18; Heb. 12:28; 2 Peter 1:11; 2:4; Rev. 20:15.

Article 25
We affirm that when Jesus has conquered all His enemies, He will hand over His kingdom to the Father; that in the new heavens and the new earth, God will be all in all; and that believers will see Christ face-to-face, be made like Him, and enjoy Him forever.

-- Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all (1 Cor. 15:24–28). See also Isa. 65:17; 66:22; Phil. 2:9–11; 2 Peter 3:13; 1 John 3:2–3; Rev. 21:1–5; 22:1–5.

Please, my brothers, read and look up each text (in the original language would be ideal) for better understanding. Remember, any old mule can kick down a barn, but it takes knowledge, planning, skills, and cooperation to build one. Let's do the same in building our faith in the deity of Christ. Happy living!
CM

[Deleted User]

@C_M_ said:
THE TWENTY-FIVE ARTICLES OF AFFIRMATION each with accompanying Scripture proofs. They lay out the boundaries of the biblical teaching on the person and work of Christ; hopefully, lead to deeper biblical teaching on Christ.

• Article 1 serves as the preface, affirming the incarnation.

As I look at just Article 1 and the list of scriptures given, there is not one which teaches an incarnation of a God Jesus by which he became a human. Long list of verses, none of which affirms what is being claimed

The rest of the Articles continue in the very same manner ....

C Mc

@Wolfgang said:

• Article 1 serves as the preface, affirming the incarnation.

As I look at just Article 1 and the list of scriptures given, there is not one which teaches an incarnation of a God Jesus by which he became a human. Long list of verses, none of which affirms what is being claimed

The rest of the Articles continue in the very same manner ....

Wolfgang, I am not surprised. It appears that you seem to be allergic to texts about God as Trinity and Jesus' deity.

Nevertheless, let's continue to dialog in a sincere and civil manner. Much understanding and truth (disagreeable) could be had. Who says we can't learn from one another? At least, we can get a clear understanding of one another's position.

I don't see or perceive you as a "demon seed" or "Son of Satan." I trust your view of me is mutual. You are someone to be understood, thereby, your views can be better grasped. I will take up your challenge to look deeper into the history of the Trinity. However, I will not do as you did with my challenge in another post. The response seems to have been "done with little effort or care." In my quest to unearth or uncover the history of the Trinity, it may become uncomfortable for both of us.

I am not afraid of truth (hope you aren't, either), wherever it leads. Nor am I, so "pig-headed", where I can't give an opposing view a fair and full evaluation.

So, work with me. I would need your honest and accurate cooperation in responses to information when found. I would like to thank you in advance for such. CM

PS. Although the topic is serious, I am not beyond a little humor in the process.

C Mc

A view in Dealing with Theological Questions-- There are three ways to address them:

1. Questions on Biblical Texts-- First, there are questions that relate to the interpretation of biblical texts or larger biblical passages.
2. Questions on Biblical Topics-- investigate the texts that we have found in their contexts, apply exegetical steps to these texts.
3. Questions Not Mentioned in Scripture-- he silence of the Word of God. some examples of issues not explicitly spelled out in Scripture: Can God die? How should we relate to abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and human cloning?
4. Biblical Concepts-- One has to go beyond word searches and explanations and investigate various biblical themes and concepts. Apart from biblical topics that are based on biblical terms, there are topics such as the Trinity, anthropology or eschatology that deal with biblical-theological concepts which cannot directly or at least not exclusively be based on biblical vocabulary.

In studying the Trinity, we must see how:

1. Different terms applied to God are used
2. Investigate Jesus’ and the apostles’ claims that Jesus was divine
3. Ask ourselves how Jesus and the Holy Spirit relate to God the Father in Scripture

4. Consider the notion that God is one, etc.

                           NEWS FLASH!!!                 NEWS FLASH !!!
   

There is no biblical text that says: “There is one God in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” However, I believe that this CONCEPT IS clearly found IN the OT and New Testaments. Hold on, we'll get there.

Different Approaches to Questions that Cannot Be Answered with One or More Biblical Texts. We have four approaches to take providing we:
1. Accept Scripture as the Word of God.
2. Avoiding critical approaches such as suggestions that Scripture is culturally conditioned or holds to an evolutionary development of beginnings

The four approaches are:

• First Approach: What Scripture Does Not Prohibit Is Allowed
• Second Approach: What Scripture Does Not Allow Is Prohibited
• Third Approach: Choosing Approaches one and two Simultaneously
• Fourth Approach: Biblical Principles to Decide Theological Issues (personal preference)

The fourth approach to issues not mentioned in Scripture is governed by biblical principles. It may be more challenging than the previous approaches and forces those applying it to study Scripture seriously, pray, and seek the will of God. It builds a mature and growing relationship with God.

W. C. Kaiser and M. Silva said: “Only what is directly taught in Scripture is binding on the conscience. . . . To bind the consciences of believers to that which
is not directly taught in Scripture is to come perilously close to raising up a new form of tradition . . .” This sounds like the first approach. But they continue: “Thus, what is directly condemned in Scripture, we must condemn. And what is condemned by immediate application of a principle we must also condemn.

Marshall believes “it is right to seek a principled way of moving from Scripture to its contemporary understanding and application, and that the way to do this is to explore how the principles can be established from Scripture itself . . .”

A compilation of working points to lead us, hopefully, closer to a better understanding the Trinity. CM

Sources:

• Walter C. Kaiser Jr. and Moisés Silva, An Introduction tBiblicalal Hermeneutics: The Search for Meaning (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1994), 204-205.
• I. Howard Marshall, Beyond the Bible: Moving from Scripture to Theology (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2004), 9, 40.