Wolfgang-the Anti-Trinitarian Man—A Challenge

C Mc

Jesus—Liar, Lord or Lunatic?

Wolfgang,

I am not so sure you’re seeking clarification to my post on Hebrews (based on your prior posts on Jesus) or to just continue your campaign of attempting to dismantle the Trinity Doctrine of the Bible?

If this is what you, and perhaps, others believe, start a new thread to one area of CD. There, make your case for A-Z without interruption. To help you get started, I would suggest the name of a new post: Jesus—Liar, Lord or Lunatic?

May I suggest you begin by citing the texts of what Jesus said of himself and then debunk them (If you can).

Go ahead; compile a dossier of all your anti-trinitarian and anti-Christ stance at one time, in one place, for all to see. This will give others a clear view and opportunity to contribute, agree or completely reject your position, boldly. This is obviously something you and others (separately or collectively) have studied and thought about for sometimes. So, make haste, to make your case. You are free to use the above thread name or start your own. If I am overstepping my bounds, seek permission from the CD Administrator. He seems to be open to liberal and progressive views.

Some may see this challenge as giving voice to Satan (“slanderer”) or heretics. If true, the horse has left the barn. Some of your views on Jesus are spread throughout the threads like STD, and even in the old CD.

If this is what you really believe, come out of the shadows and own it. Don’t be an anti-trinitarian troll among Bible-believing Trinitarians, even if you are in the minority. We may not understand or accept your views, but you are a brother to be loved and related to just the same.

I look forward to your full disclosure if you accept the challenge and it is approved by CD’s Administrator (s). Happy typing! CM

PS. If I knew how to send this to you privately, I would have, like in the old CD.

Bill_Coley

@C_M_ said:
To help you get started, I would suggest the name of a new post: Jesus—Liar, Lord or Lunatic?

I'm surprised and disappointed by your choice of thread title options, C.M. I doubt any follower of Jesus who rejects trinitarian doctrine embraces any of those three other than "Lord."

May I suggest you begin by citing the texts of what Jesus said of himself and then debunk them (If you can).

Again, I am surprised by your word choice.

As a person who rejects trinitarian thinking, I don't feel the need to "debunk" anything Jesus said about himself. In fact, so I contend, the vast majority of what Jesus said about himself and his relationship to God made a clear separation between himself and God.

Go ahead; compile a dossier of all your anti-trinitarian and anti-Christ stance at one time, in one place, for all to see.

Why do you refer to the Christology of those who reject trinitarian doctrine as also "anti-Christ"? Surely you must agree with me that that's a term that has other, more nefarious meanings in the New Testament.

This will give others a clear view and opportunity to contribute, agree or completely reject your position, boldly.

If by "contribute" here you mean "engage and/or take issue with in ways short of completely reject(ing)" anti-trinitarian points of view, I agree.

Some may see this challenge as giving voice to Satan (“slanderer”) or heretics. If true, the horse has left the barn. Some of your views on Jesus are spread throughout the threads like STD, and even in the old CD.

Something to consider: Comparisons of points of view that reject trinitarian doctrine to "Satan (slanderer)," "heretics," or "STDs" might not, by those who reject trinitarian doctrine, be considered helpful or welcoming incentives to share their views.

If this is what you really believe, come out of the shadows and own it. Don’t be an anti-trinitarian troll among Bible-believing Trinitarians, even if you are in the minority. We may not understand or accept your views, but you are a brother to be loved and related to just the same.

We don't live in "the shadows," C.M. We live our faith, study our Bibles, pray, and love people and serve in the name of Jesus just like you "Bible believing Trinitarians" do. Whether you understand and accept our views is no more or less critical to us than is your wanting us to understand and accept your views.

---

Thanks for this offer, C.M. but if you want to invite CD participants who reject trinitarian doctrine to start a thread in which they make their views known, just ask us to. You don't have to frame your request as a perilous invitation to residents of the theological dark side to disclose their identities in the bright sunlight of what you believe to be the truth.

GaoLu

The challenge is not to you Bill. You have already made your positions clear on these matters. You do not believe the Bible is True. You do not believe Jesus is God. Your belief is a matter of personal willful choice, not Biblical argument (surprise us if this is incorrect with your own personal thread--yes that is a challenge). Wolfgang doesn't need you to toss out red herrings to foment distracting arguments for him. The subject of trolling has come up before with much drama resulting.

Bill_Coley

@GaoLu said:
The challenge is not to you Bill.

I read two lines of C.M.'s post to refer to "others," people in addition to Wolfgang:

"If this is what you, and perhaps, others believe, start a new thread to one area of CD. There, make your case for A-Z without interruption."

and

"This is obviously something you and others (separately or collectively) have studied and thought about for sometimes. So, make haste, to make your case."

Perhaps C.M. will tell us whether he intended his references to "others" as an invitation to people other than Wolfgang to contribute to the thread he envisions.

[Deleted User]

@C_M_ said:
Jesus—Liar, Lord or Lunatic?

Wolfgang,

I am not so sure you’re seeking clarification to my post on Hebrews (based on your prior posts on Jesus) or to just continue your campaign of attempting to dismantle the Trinity Doctrine of the Bible?

How could I or anyone dismantle a doctrine in the Bible which does NOT exist in the Bible?

You and others are campaigning for a doctrine and dogma which Trinity followers -- and in particular those who are theologians, scholars, authors, etc . -- say and write is NOT as such mentioned or taught in the Bible, but developed in the first few centuries after Christ and after the writing of the NT scriptures.

If you don't like questions I asked regarding your first posts and comments about Heb 1, then say so and refute the points I made from the text and context by answering my questions with textual evidence and reasonable and logical thinking. If you are unable to do so, then just say why and rest your case.

While the Bible teaches that Jesus is Lord, the "Trinity makes Jesus to be a liar, God and lunatic!"

[Deleted User]

@C_M_ said:
May I suggest you begin by citing the texts of what Jesus said of himself and then debunk them (If you can).

How about this text which records what Jesus said of himself

Joh 8,42 (AV)
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

I believe what Jesus said when he made a clear distinction between himself and God by plainly and clearly stating that he was NOT God, but that God was the one who had sent him.

I think it is YOU who should debunk what Jesus said, because according to you and others who claim that Jesus himself IS God, the verse should perhaps read

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I am God; as God I came of myself, since I sent myself.

How many other verses with words from Jesus himself should I list in which he debunks your Trinity theology?