The TRUTH About "The Logos Of God"
Comments
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Your own words show 'The true God throughout the Biblical Scriptures is a singular' belief is more important to you than יהוה Yahweh our אֱלֹהִים Gd inspiring Scripture words to express being a Plural Unified Gd => "I", "Our", "Us", "We" (Scripture simply disagrees with your 'singular and not a plural being, God is a "HE" not a "THEY"' belief).
No, the Scripture truth that the true God is a HE (a SINGULAR entity/person) shows that your faith belief of "God / YHWH" is a "plural entities community" is wrong.
Your interpretation of the terms "יהוה Yahweh our אֱלֹהִים Gd" as being a "Plural Unified God => I, Our, Us, We" is contrary to what Scripture states ... Have a look at Gen 1:26-27.
Gen 1:26-2 (AV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ....
27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Do you notice that "God" is spoken of as HE? as in HIS image? created HE ...?
Where is your God spoken of as they? in their image? created they? You want to switch in your idea to God is community? Ok, if so, where is that "God-community" spoken of as it [the community, group, trio]? in its image? created it ????
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Your own words show 'The true God throughout the Biblical Scriptures is a singular' belief is more important to you than יהוה Yahweh our אֱלֹהִים Gd inspiring Scripture words to express being a Plural Unified Gd => "I", "Our", "Us", "We" (Scripture simply disagrees with your 'singular and not a plural being, God is a "HE" not a "THEY"' belief).
@Wolfgang No, the Scripture truth that the true God is a HE (a SINGULAR entity/person) shows that your faith belief of "God / YHWH" is a "plural entities community" is wrong.
@Wolfgang Your interpretation of the terms "יהוה Yahweh our אֱלֹהִים Gd" as being a "Plural Unified God => I, Our, Us, We" is contrary to what Scripture states ... Have a look at Gen 1:26-27.
Gen 1:26-2 (AV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ....
27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
@Wolfgang Do you notice that "God" is spoken of as HE? as in HIS image? created HE ...?
@Wolfgang Where is your God spoken of as they? in their image? created they? You want to switch in your idea to God is community? Ok, if so, where is that "God-community" spoken of as it [the community, group, trio]? in its image? created it ????
If One Gd is completely a 'HE (a SINGULAR entity/person)', what a perfect place to have said: "Let ME make man in MY image, after MY likeness", but One Gd truly inspired a mixture of singular and Plural words to convey the fullness of One Gd, including "Our", "His", & "The" qualifying singular image = Plural Unified Gd in Genesis 1:26-27 (AV) And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in His own image, in The image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
Genesis 1:26-27 is truthfully consistent with Jesus having Gd's Glory (John 17.5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the world was created so "God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness" includes Jesus & Father already being יהוה Yahweh (John 17:11 One Name, One Gd)
Isaiah 41:21-23 (AV) Produce your cause, saith the יהוה Lord; Bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob. Let them bring them forth, and shew Us what shall happen: Let them shew the former things, what they be, That We may consider them, and know the latter end of them; Or declare Us things for to come. Shew the things that are to come hereafter, That We may know that ye are gods: Yea, do good, or do evil, That We may be dismayed, and behold it together.
Why is One יהוה Yahweh Lord King saying Us & We instead of Me & I in Isaiah 41:21-23 ? What is We in One Gd ? (Glory, Love, ..., but not image)
Keep Smiling 😊
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Genesis 1:26-27 is truthfully consistent with Jesus having Gd's Glory (John 17.5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the world was created
Cp 1Pe 1:20 and you will learn HOW the Messiah Jesus existed with God before the foundation of the world ... it was NOT as a separate living person/being/voice. Thus, your idea of a living Jesus before the foundation of the world is NOT what Scripture teaches.
so "God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness" includes Jesus & Father already being יהוה Yahweh (John 17:11 One Name, One Gd)
The use of a plural "we" by a singular person is a common linguistic means for adding emphasis and expressing majesty.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Genesis 1:26-27 is truthfully consistent with Jesus having Gd's Glory (John 17.5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the world was created
@Wolfgang Cp 1Pe 1:20 and you will learn HOW the Messiah Jesus existed with God before the foundation of the world ... it was NOT as a separate living person/being/voice. Thus, your idea of a living Jesus before the foundation of the world is NOT what Scripture teaches.
Bible Search in the Society of Biblical Languages Greek New Testament (SBLGNT) for: <Lemma = lbs/el/πρό> BEFORE 3 WORDS <Lemma = lbs/el/κόσμος> finds four prepositional phrases: (also learned English glosses in SBLGNT can be searched: before BEFORE 3 WORDS world )
John 17:5 (SBLGNT) καὶ νῦν δόξασόν με σύ, πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί.
John 17:24 (SBLGNT) πάτερ, ὃ δέδωκάς μοι, θέλω ἵνα ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγὼ κἀκεῖνοι ὦσιν μετʼ ἐμοῦ, ἵνα θεωρῶσιν τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν ἣν δέδωκάς μοι, ὅτι ἠγάπησάς με πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου.
Ephesians 1:4 (SBLGNT) καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου, εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ ἐν ἀγάπῃ
1 Peter 1:20 (SBLGNT) προεγνωσμένου μὲν πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου, φανερωθέντος δὲ ἐπʼ ἐσχάτου τῶν χρόνων διʼ ὑμᾶς
Noted negation μή not in 1 Peter 1:20 so does not express 'it was NOT as a separate living person/being/voice.' Noticed 1 Peter 1:20 is a phrase in a complex Greek sentence 1 Peter 1:17-23 written by the human Peter, who was in Gd's plan before creation. Truthfully consistent is Jesus praying in John 17:5 πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί. => Father, alongside yourself the glory that I was having before the (to exist) the world to exist alongside you. Verb εἶχον is imperfect (continous action in past time) => "I was having" so the words of Jesus provide first person eyewitness experience in One Gd before the world was. Jesus was present during Gd's planning process before creation for consistency with 1 Peter 1:20 about Gd's Love plan for the world having Jesus, The Word (portion of יהוה Yahweh Gd), take on human flesh to become Holy sacrifice whose blood allows the elect to be redeemed from futile way of life by believing in One Gd to become Holy as Gd is Holy.
1 Peter 1:17 (AV) "And if ye call on the Father, ..." reminds me of "The everlasting Father" prophecy about Jesus (יהוה Yahweh name is consistent with John 17:11 expression experience) in Isaiah 9:6 (AV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulder: And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus so "God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness" includes Jesus & Father already being יהוה Yahweh (John 17:11 One Name, One Gd)
@Wolfgang The use of a plural "we" by a singular person is a common linguistic means for adding emphasis and expressing majesty.
Could "majesty" reflect lesson learned by king Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4, which resulted in king Nebuchadnezzar praising One Gd in Truth ?
No human king (ruler, president, chancellor, prime minister, ...) becomes king without One Gd so "we" reflects One Gd's plural majesty in ruling.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus ... you can forget your "studies" in Greek using the Logos Bible software Tools IF you (mis)use them thereby thinking that what you make is actually a correct interpretation. You deceive yourself into thinking you know what you are doing just because you have some tools and use them in some way ...
Just having a big suitcase full of top quality electrician tools and using some here and there does not show that you actually know an electrician's work.
Could "majesty" reflect lesson learned by king Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4, which resulted in king Nebuchadnezzar praising One Gd in Truth ?
No ..... but you provide yet another example showing you seemingly do not read nor then follow the context of what was said, but instead deviate into something of an entirely different context and matter.
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@Wolfgang @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus ... you can forget your "studies" in Greek using the Logos Bible software Tools IF you (mis)use them thereby thinking that what you make is actually a correct interpretation. You deceive yourself into thinking you know what you are doing just because you have some tools and use them in some way ...
Well written reflection while remembering your faith filter of Gd being Father only (missing fullness of One Gd). Knowing more people are reading this thread than participating provides reason to include Logos Bible Software searches so they can replicate results and ponder implications. Searching in Logos & Verbum is one of my favorite discussion topics at the Logos Community Forums => https://community.logos.com and Faithlife Group: Logos Search => https://faithlife.com/logos-search/activity
@Wolfgang The use of a plural "we" by a singular person is a common linguistic means for adding emphasis and expressing majesty.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Could "majesty" reflect lesson learned by king Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4, which resulted in king Nebuchadnezzar praising One Gd in Truth ?
@Wolfgang No ..... but you provide yet another example showing you seemingly do not read nor then follow the context of what was said, but instead deviate into something of an entirely different context and matter.
What is the etymology for your linguistic wisdom 'The use of a plural "we" by a singular person is a common linguistic means for adding emphasis and expressing majesty.' ? Majesty of Gd shows in titles 'Lord of Lords' and 'King of Kings' for The Word (Jesus), consistent with Matthew 28:18-20 all authority in heaven and in earth given to Jesus, The Word (portion of יהוה Yahweh Gd). Would Gd give all authority to a human ? (to become Gd)
Revelation 17:14 (AV) These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Revelation 19:11-16 (AV) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
What is We, Us, Our in One Gd ? (Glory, Love, Voices, ..., but singular attributes of One Gd include image, name, heart, soul, strength, Holy, ...)
Keep Smiling 😊
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What is the etymology for your linguistic wisdom 'The use of a plural "we" by a singular person is a common linguistic means for adding emphasis and expressing majesty.' ?
It is a commonly known linguistic style feature; in English language, the commonly used name is "plural of majesty" or also "majestic plural" or "royal we". Have a look at a lexicon. Even Wikipedia has an entry explaining it
The royal we, or majestic plural (pluralis majestatis), is the use of a plural pronoun (or corresponding plural-inflected verb forms) to refer to a single person who is a monarch. The more general word for the use of a we, us, or our to refer to oneself is nosism.
Speakers employing the royal we refer to themselves using a grammatical number other than the singular (i.e., in plural or dual form).
Compare the following:
PLURALIS MAJESTATIS If the plural form does not express a normal numerical plural, but indicates that something or someone is mighty, big, terrible or respectable, it is called the pluralis majestatis or royal plural.
Van der Merwe, C., Naudé, J., Kroeze, J., Van der Merwe, C., Naudé, J., & Kroeze, J. (1999). A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar (electronic ed., p. 363). Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press.
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus What is the etymology for your linguistic wisdom 'The use of a plural "we" by a singular person is a common linguistic means for adding emphasis and expressing majesty.' ?
@Wolfgang It is a commonly known linguistic style feature; in English language, the commonly used name is "plural of majesty" or also "majestic plural" or "royal we". Have a look at a lexicon. Even Wikipedia has an entry explaining it
Logos Basic Search in All Resources for: (PLURALIS, Plural) WITHIN 3 WORDS (MAJESTATIS, Majesty) found 2,347 results in 570 resources.
plural of majesty. n. The BH (Biblical Hebrew) use of a plural sufformative in the formation of an honorific. Though grammatically plural, the word will be found with a singular verb. For example, in Genesis 1:1 the subject God is plural, but the verb is masculine singular in form: בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
Murphy, Todd J. Pocket Dictionary for the Study of Biblical Hebrew. The IVP Pocket Reference Series. Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2003.
Essentially the etymology (historical basis/development) for "plural of majestic" is a grammatical recognition/description of One Gd inspiring a mixture of singular and plural words to convey the Majestic fullness of One Gd (grammatically puzzling from apparent numeric inconsistency).
No humans existed when Jesus was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:4) so What is We, Us, Our in One Gd ?
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Essentially the etymology (historical basis/development) for "plural of majestic" is a grammatical recognition/description of One Gd inspiring a mixture of singular and plural words to convey the Majestic fullness of One Gd (grammatically puzzling from apparent numeric inconsistency).
There is nothing puzzling as there is no numeric inconsistency ... the use of the figure of speech pluralis majestatis is by design and on purpose to emphasize the special majesty of one SINGULAR being.
Jesus existed before the foundation of the world in the form of word (cp John 1:1) in God's foreknowledge (cp 1Pe 1:20). God already then had glory and love for His only begotten Son in His foreknowledge and plan.
The SINGULAR being, Who is called Father in Scripture and Whom Jesus spoke of as his Father is the we, us, our true God. There is no plural God (which truthfully would have to be "Gods")
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus No humans existed when Jesus was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:4) so What is We, Us, Our in One Gd ?
@Wolfgang Jesus existed before the foundation of the world in the form of word (cp John 1:1) in God's foreknowledge (cp 1Pe 1:20). God already then had glory and love for His only begotten Son in His foreknowledge and plan.
Logos Bible Search in the Society of Biblical Languages Greek New Testament for foreknowledge lemma's: <Lemma = lbs/el/προγινώσκω> OR <Lemma = lbs/el/πρόγνωσις> finds seven verses => Acts 2:23, Acts 26:5, Romans 8:29, Romans 11:2, 1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 3:17 so John did not use these lemma's to describe The Word. Appears 'Jesus existed before the foundation of the world in the form of word (cp John 1:1) in God's (Father's) foreknowledge (cp 1Pe 1:20)' is an eisegetical reading/understanding/belief of One Gd's inspired Scripture.
Remember Jesus was having Gd's Glory (John 17:5) and Loved by Father (John 17:24) before the foundation of the world, which is wonderfully more inclusive than your 'God (Father) already then had glory and love for His only begotten Son in His foreknowledge and plan.' belief. Within Majestic Fullness of One Gd, Jesus received The Father's Love when no humans existed. From a planning perspective, One Gd could envision/anticipate with Joyful exuberance Hebrews 12:1-3 (AV) Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
John 1:1-5 uses verb ἦν imperfect (continuous action in past time), active, indicative, third person, singular of εἰμί (to be), which can be translated was being to emphasize imperfect action. John 1:1-5 (AV) In the beginning was being the Word, and the Word was being with God, and the Word was being God. The same was being in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was being life; and the life was being the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Looking at 1 Peter 1:13-25 (AV) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Noticed Gd's redemption plan before the foundation of the world included the precious Holy blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Thankful for me believing Jesus is in יהוה Yahweh Gd so am experiencing the Holy Gd redemption described by Peter (as an obedient child of Gd, who is striving to be Holy). Thankful for One Gd's Holy Fruit (Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Humility, Self-Control) being intensely intertwined, always together. Thankful for my worship of One Gd often Praising all of One Gd while sometimes specifically Thanking a particular voice in One Gd's commUnity of Love (three voices are distinct, as described in Scripture, while always being One Gd = a Plural Unified Gd).
@Wolfgang The SINGULAR being, Who is called Father in Scripture and Whom Jesus spoke of as his Father is the we, us, our true God. There is no plural God (which truthfully would have to be "Gods")
Appreciate answer appears correct to you per your faith belief. To me, "What is We, Us, Our in One Gd ?" includes Father and Jesus sharing Gd's Glory & Love before creation with forever continuation. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, with Father & Breath The Holy = One Gd. Please investigate One True Gd inspiring mixture of singular (I, Me, My) & plural (We, Us, Our) Scripture to convey Majestic fullness of One Gd, which can include prayerfully asking Gd about Gd's commUnity of Love (if you really want to know the Truth). Thankful One Gd answers prayers.
Keep Smiling 😊
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@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus ... keep repeating your faith belief ... since you won't accept common linguistic rules and basics of context, but instead accuse those who point the objective linguistic matters to you of "going by their faith belief", there is no sense in doing a study of the Scriptures or have an exchange about Scriptures together with you.
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To me, "What is We, Us, Our in One Gd ?" includes Father and Jesus sharing Gd's Glory & Love before creation with forever continuation.
Sure ... TO YOU, it's what YOU think, no matter what the Scriptures overall plainly state.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, with Father & Breath The Holy = One Gd.
YOU mix and add and then arrive at YOUR desired faith belief idea. Have you actually read what Heb 13 says, from where you take one snippet of your mix of ideas?
Hebr 13,8 (AV)
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
There is nothing about "with Father & Breath The Holy = One God", is there? And for the actual statement, what is meant with the reference to "Jesus"? Is this about the person Jesus of Nazareth? How could that be? Was the person Jesus "the same yesterday, and today and forever? Obviously NOT, because he at one time "yesterday (in past)" was a child, then he grew up, then at some time he was actually dead (!), then he was raised dby God to eternal life .... quite a few changes and definitely not "the same", yes?
Now, what then is this speaking about? Have a look at the very next verse that follows:
Hebr 13,9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Here you have the answer to the above questions ... the context (!!!) tells you that it is about THE DOCTRINE concerning Jesus which does not change, as it is contrasted with divers and strange doctrines which undergo plenty of changes!
Please investigate One True Gd inspiring mixture of singular (I, Me, My) & plural (We, Us, Our) Scripture to convey Majestic fullness of One Gd, which can include prayerfully asking Gd about Gd's commUnity of Love (if you really want to know the Truth)
IF you indeed did so, you would have noticed that Scripture does NOT teach what YOU make it to say in order to substantiate YOUR private interpretation faith belief.
See above ... I did not write the book. Your argument is not with me. Finished, End of story.
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@Wolfgang @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus ... keep repeating your faith belief ... since you won't accept common linguistic rules and basics of context, but instead accuse those who point the objective linguistic matters to you of "going by their faith belief", there is no sense in doing a study of the Scriptures or have an exchange about Scriptures together with you.
What you "see" in me really reflects your own eisegetical approach to Scripture: your faith belief about 'The SINGULAR being' is more important to you than appreciating/understanding One Gd truly inspired a mixture of singular (I, Me, My) & plural (We, Us, Our) Scripture to convey Majestic fullness in One Gd. Your words "The SINGULAR being, Who is called Father in Scripture and Whom Jesus spoke of as his Father is the we, us, our true God." show your belief that "God" = "Father" so all plural words by One Gd are interpreted as singular by you (using rationale of human common linguistic rules while ignoring grammatical basis for "Plural of Majesty" where Gd plural subject has singular verb). My faith believes One Gd truly inspired a mixture of singular (I, Me, My) & plural (We, Us, Our) so my "Gd" includes Father + two more Deity Voices while always being One Gd.
John did not describe The Word as a plan, but wrote The Word was being when Gd began. In Him (The Word) was being life (John 1:4), which includes Gd's breath of life into dust to create Adam. The TRUTH about "The Logos of Gd" includes Gd (Elohim plural) in Genesis speaking words to create (singular action) out of nothing, which includes life. Thankful for all nature Praising the Glory of Gd (isaiah 6:3) 😍
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus To me, "What is We, Us, Our in One Gd ?" includes Father and Jesus sharing Gd's Glory & Love before creation with forever continuation.
@Wolfgang Sure ... TO YOU, it's what YOU think, no matter what the Scriptures overall plainly state.
Priestly prayer by Jesus plainly provides a specific Truthful Scripture basis for my One Gd belief: e.g. John 17:5 πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί. => Father, alongside yourself the glory that I was having before the (to exist) the world to exist alongside you. & John 17:24 πάτερ, ὃ δέδωκάς μοι, θέλω ἵνα ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγὼ κἀκεῖνοι ὦσιν μετʼ ἐμοῦ, ἵνα θεωρῶσιν τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν ἣν δέδωκάς μοι, ὅτι ἠγάπησάς με πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου. => Father, whom thou hast given me, I am wanting that where I am being I that they may be with me, so that they may see the glory the (glory) my that thou hast given me, because you loved me before foundation of world.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, with Father & Breath The Holy = One Gd.
@Wolfgang YOU mix and add and then arrive at YOUR desired faith belief idea. Have you actually read what Heb 13 says, from where you take one snippet of your mix of ideas?
Apologies for me not having a clue about number of times spent reading & listening to Bible, which still provides awe & wonder as Scripture is a bountiful treasure hunt, whose gems have many brilliant sparkles. Thankful for daily prayers with Breath The Holy for many people currently inside prison. Thankful can join Breath The Holy in praying for many marriages, which can be an awesome way to experience Oneness in Gd (Spiritually, Emotionally, Mentally, Socially, Physically). Thankful for being content where Gd had me and my human best friend move (when personally was hoping not to move). Thankful for Gd's Holy, Holy, Holy presence daily so being physically alone at home is never spiritually alone (includes a hand drawn poster from a ministry event where One Gd lovingly reminded me: "You are Never Alone Brother!"). Recently passed the second anniversary of my best friend's human tent departure to be in Gd's Holy Heaven. Thankful for One Gd providing vision confirmation to a relative on the day after passing as my eyes were too full of tears. Thankful for One Gd's Love showing up in a surprising sympathy flower arrangement where local florist changed an order from all white flowers to include a dozen flowers that matched my best friend's wedding choice. Human (out of state) placing flower arrangement order and florist had no knowledge of wedding flower color and type, but Gd knew 😍
Hebr 13,8 (AV) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
@Wolfgang There is nothing about "with Father & Breath The Holy = One God", is there? And for the actual statement, what is meant with the reference to "Jesus"? Is this about the person Jesus of Nazareth? How could that be? Was the person Jesus "the same yesterday, and today and forever? Obviously NOT, because he at one time "yesterday (in past)" was a child, then he grew up, then at some time he was actually dead (!), then he was raised dby God to eternal life .... quite a few changes and definitely not "the same", yes?
Jesus was in יהוה Yahweh Gd when Gd (Elohim plural) said: "Let there be Light!" that is consistent with John 1:1-5 where The Word was being eternally Gd, the same yesterday, today, and forever, which is also True of Father in יהוה Yahweh Gd and Breath The Holy in יהוה Yahweh Gd. One Gd has not changed. Concur with 'yes' for The Word (portion in יהוה Yahweh Gd) choosing to change Spiritual location from Gd's Throne in Holy Heaven to take on human flesh (John 1:9-14), live a sinless human life (even though our spiritual adversary tried many magnitudes of temptations that had been used to stumble countless numbers of humans), choosing Joy as a reason to offer human body as the Holy Lamb of Gd who takes away the sin of the world, followed by all of One Gd (Father & The Word & Breath The Holy) raising human body of Jesus Christ from death to life.
@Wolfgang Now, what then is this speaking about? Have a look at the very next verse that follows:
Hebr 13,9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
@Wolfgang Here you have the answer to the above questions ... the context (!!!) tells you that it is about THE DOCTRINE concerning Jesus which does not change, as it is contrasted with divers and strange doctrines which undergo plenty of changes!
Hebrews 13:8-9 Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ἐχθὲς καὶ σήμερον ὁ αὐτός, καὶ εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. διδαχαῖς ποικίλαις καὶ ξέναις μὴ παραφέρεσθε· καλὸν γὰρ χάριτι βεβαιοῦσθαι τὴν καρδίαν, οὐ βρώμασιν, ἐν οἷς οὐκ ὠφελήθησαν οἱ περιπατοῦντες. => Jesus Christ yesterday and today the same, and to the age (forever). Teachings various and strange be not misleading by: good because grace to strengthen the heart, not by foods, by which not they benefited the ones conducting themselves.
Noted Authorized Version translated διδαχαῖς (teaching, instruction) as doctrines, with the exhortation to not be mislead/carried away by strange & various teachings: e.g. Jesus cannot be Gd (from your faith belief about 'The SINGULAR being') that denies Truthful Scripture teaching about Gd.
@Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus Please investigate One True Gd inspiring mixture of singular (I, Me, My) & plural (We, Us, Our) Scripture to convey Majestic fullness of One Gd, which can include prayerfully asking Gd about Gd's commUnity of Love (if you really want to know the Truth)
@Wolfgang IF you indeed did so, you would have noticed that Scripture does NOT teach what YOU make it to say in order to substantiate YOUR private interpretation faith belief.
@Wolfgang See above ... I did not write the book. Your argument is not with me. Finished, End of story.
Thankful for One Gd answering my prayers to understand & imitate Gd: to be Holy as Gd is Holy 😍Concur One Gd truly inspired Scripture.
Concur your argument is not with me. Thankful for CD discussion, which thus far has proved the insight from my Pastor being correct about beliefs not changing; humans are incredibly stubborn. Discussion with hours of prayer commUnion in One Gd has helped me grow in Holiness along with appreciating more the splendor of Gd. Discussion has provided me some Scripture to consider if a person really wants to know Gd.
Keep Smiiling 😊
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