The Beast Revelation
The Beast Revelation
This letter is dedicated to all Christians.
The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.
The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.
This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.
Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.
Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.
Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.
Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.
In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.
Now, concerning the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.
Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.
Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.
The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similitude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistent with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.
May God bless all who read this letter.
Michael
Comments
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I read it ... and would say that it the material put forward has little to nothing to do with what the BIBLICAL record reveals but instead provides yet another example of the kind of private interpretation mentioned in 2Pe 1:20 ...
I'd suggest to read and believe what is clearly stated in very plain words at the beginning of the book and at the end of the book regarding the time frame when the things spoken of in the book must come to pass .... and that time frame is NOT about 2000 years in the future from the time when the content of the book was revealed and written down ... cp Rev 1:1 - "must shortly come to pass"; Rev 22:6 - "the things which must shortly be done."
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Consider this background material on the book of Revelation:
https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/16282#Comment_16282
I. The book of Revelation was written at end of the first century. John wrote Revelation while on Patmos, a small rocky island in the Aegean Sea (fifty miles) off the southwest coast of Asia Minor (modern Turkey). The governing authorities exile him to Patmos during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian (A.D. 81–96) where he was forced to work in the quarries.
The book of Revelation was written in a time of Roman hostility toward Christianity. General scholarly consensus holds that Revelation was written during the time of Domitian (A.D. 81–96). This date for the writing of Revelation is preferable for two reasons:
- John stayed in Jerusalem for a number of years, eventually leaving Palestine shortly before the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. He subsequently settled in Ephesus in Asia Minor. The churches he refers to in his book had been in existence for a number of years. They were in a condition of spiritual decline and apostasy. The churches in Asia Minor were not founded until the early sixties. They were still prospering during the reign of Nero.
- Irenaeus, the disciple of Polycarp (A.D. 60–150), said that the book of Revelation was written during the time of Domitian.
- The book was written in a time when Christians were experiencing hardship and pressure because of their refusal to comply with popular demands for emperor worship. While worship of the living emperor had been advanced by the Romans since Augustus Octavian (27 B.C.–A.D. 14). The emperors who demanded worship were:
- Gaius Caligula (A.D. 37–41) was the first emperor to demand worship for himself.
- Domitian (A.D. 81–96). “It was under this emperor, that the question of emperor worship became, for the first time, a crucial issue for Christians.”
The book of Revelation was suited and designed to provide hope and encouragement to oppressed Christians of John’s day. CM
SOURCES:
- Irenaeus Against Heresies 5.30.3 (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1:559–560).
- Victorinus In Apocalupsi 1.11
- Eusebius Historia Ecclesiae 3.18.1 (The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d ser., 1:148)
- Jerome Lives of Illustrious Men 9 (The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d ser., 3:9).
II. "The original recipients" spoke and use the common language of the day, "Koine" Greek. In some places, Aramaic was spoken.
III. What type of prophecy are we dealing with ["Classical" -- prophet's time, conditional or "Apocalyptic" -- symbolic, long time span, single fulfillment, unconditional]?
IV. I know it's a symbolic language, but what does it mean? What's the message? This is the point of inquiring of content, context, the message to the original audience, and application for today. Without these Revelation has no meaning.
V. Starting point of understanding:
- The Bible is the "Inspired" ("God-breathed") Word. "Holy men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
- No prophecy is of private interpretation.
- Revelation is an apocalyptic (long time-periods) book. Prophecy points, but doesn't pinpoint.
- God speaks to and through his servant the prophet ("mouthpiece" for God; one who speaks for God).
- John wrote the book of Revelation in letter-form, to be sent and read publicly, to the seven Churches (believers) of Asia Minor.
- We must understand the original audience's times, language, message; and then, make present-day application of John's message for today's Christians.
- The Book of Revelation uses symbolic images and OT words and languages.
- The book was written on the island of Patmos around the late AD 90.
- Some form of Emperor worship was in place.
- John was familiar with the writing of Paul and the OT.
- Revelation is the last book of the NT and biblical canon.
VI. TWO Types of prophecies
"Apocalyptic Prophecy" -- DOES NOT have multiple fulfillments (Dan 2 and Rev 12). Apocalyptic prophecy seems to have just ONE fulfillment and is UNCONDITIONAL.
-------VS-----
"Classical Prophecy" -- may have MORE THAN ONE fulfillment and maybe CONDITIONAL. e.g. Rev 2-3 reveals a reduced number of symbols and more non-symbolic language.
VII. The self-testimony of the Bible about its own reliability and usefulness is instructive. Paul underscores the divine inspiration of the Scriptures and commends its total adequacy in 2 Tim. 3:14-17:
- But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Scripture "owes its origin and content to divine breath" (See Hendrikson); it is the product of God's "creative fiat" (See Packer). The manner in which the Scriptures were "breathed out by God" is not addressed in this passage.
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation..." (2 Pet. 1:20-21). If it is the case, Peter is referring to the corpus of Scripture with the phrase "prophecy of Scripture" then this is a strong statement about the divine control over the writers of Scripture (See Pinnock).
This high regard for the Hebrew scriptures was extended to the New Testament corpus in time. In 1 Tim. 5:18, Paul quotes two passages, one from Deuteronomy (25:4) and one found in Luke 10:7. He makes no distinction of value between the two and introduces both with the formula: "Scripture says...." Already at this early stage in the development of the canon, part of the biblical tradition which later was expressed in the New Testament writings was considered on par with the Hebrew Scriptures.
There are several words that the Old Testament uses for "fountain" and "spring." The most common words are found:
The term "spring" is used in a variety of ways:
- It is used for a woman's menstrual discharge (Lev 20:18)
- A source of life (Pss 36:9; 68:26)
- An allusion to a sexual intercourse (Prov 5:18)
- In a figurative speech (Jer 9:1)
Usually, the OT's usages of "water," in general and of "springs of water," in particular, have literal meanings.
- "And they came to Elim, where were twelve springs of water, and threescore and ten palm-trees: and they encamped there by the waters" (Exod 15:27). "And they journeyed from Marah, and came unto Elim: and in Elim were twelve springs of water, and threescore and ten palm trees; and they encamped there" (Num 33:9).
In addition, there are 16 passages in the Fourth Gospel (John 4:14, 48; 6:35, 37; 8:12, 51, 52; 10:5, 28; 11:26; 13:8, 38; 18:11) reveals in the the doctrine of salvation sayings of Jesus points to Him as the fulfillment of OT messianic expectations, His divine status, and the nature of His messiahship.
Jesus used and read from the OT. We must note first, and know, the "OT terms", who spoke them, to whom, and their original meaning to the original audiences before "running them through Christ and the NT writers". In this order and direction, only; and then, see if there is any redefinition by Christ or other NT Writers. The other way around is putting the cart before the horse. Now, Dave, do you see light in doing it this way? CM
SOURCES:
-- Hendriksen, W. (1957). New Testament commentary: Exposition of the pastoral epistles. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker., pg 302.
-- Packer, J. I. (1979). God has spoken. Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity., pg 98.
-- Pinnock, Clark H. (1971). Biblical revelation: The foundation of Christian theology. Chicago: Moody.
https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/10201#Comment_10201
VIII. The role of the Old Testament.
Revelation is filled with the incidents, the thought, and the language of the Old Testament, not in major quotations, but in allusions: a word here, a phrase there, a name, or a place. Determining the Old Testament background texts is crucial to understanding the message of the book.
1:1 "of Jesus Christ". Can mean the message comes from Jesus, is about Him, or both. "must shortly take place".
The Bible always presents the end as near (Matt. 16:28; 1 Thess. 4:16–17).
An allusion to Dan. 2:28, 45. Revelation is modeled on the style and content of Dan. 2: sequences of history in symbolic format. signified it. Using symbolic language about the future (John 21:19; Acts 11:28)
..., please note the texts below. It may help explain Rev 1:1, "soon" or "shortly", and yet the 2000 plus years. I think this view is sensible and reasonable. After all, you nor I am God.
- The Revelation of Jesus Christ, [John 3:32] which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must ["quickly" or "swiftly"] shortly take place. And [Rev 22:6] He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John. (Re 1:3).
- Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for [James 5:8; Rev. 22:10] the time is near. (Re 1:3).
- "And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony" (Jn 3:32).
- “For yet a little while, And He [Luke 18:8] who [Or that which] is coming will come and will not tarry. (Heb 10:37).
I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” (Lk 18:8).
- "Speedily". May refer to His diligent work to bring all things to completion, or to the sudden nature of His coming, when complete justice will be accomplished (2 Pet. 3:9).
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Pe 3:8). CM
I have taken the liberty to compile past posts to help with assist in your study of the bookof Revelation. I not go at hyperlink as well as avoid the many detractions that one sometimes encounters. If you're allergic or afraid of long posts stand a chance greaming fresh insights on the Book of Revelation. CM
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From internal evidence in the book, the earlier date of writing during a time just prior to the Jewish revolt in late 60ies AD should be preferred .... simple and plain truth.
The problem for most people is that they refuse to believe that what was prophesied would come to pass in the very near future from the time of writing (cp. Rev 1:1- "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" ... Rev 22: 6 - "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.) and instead of believing what the text says, they trust in theological sources that propagate such rejection of the text in favor of their faith beliefs.
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I hope you see light in what I share in my last post to your OP. I have taken the liberty to compile past posts to help assist in your study of the book of Revelation. Because I am not good at hyperlinking, that is why the post is so long. Also, to avoid the many detours a thread is subject to take at a given time. If you're allergic or afraid of long posts, take your time. Please, read it in parts. The probability of you gleaming fresh insights on the Book of Revelation and a better understanding of the "beast" and few other things.
It will not only be me. Others, I anticipate, will contribute substantive materials and reasonings given the biblical context. Let's build a better understanding together. CM
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@C Mc posted:
I hope you see light in what I share in my last post to your OP.
CM, you clearly invested a time and effort in order to create the reply to @michae1 that you posted in this thread on June 11. I applaud your willingness to provide information from the resources available to you.
In this particular instance, however, I don't think you should expect a reply. According to @michae1's profile, he (or she) has made one and only one visit to the CD forums, the June 20, 2020, visit that yielded this thread's OP. That is, @michae1 hasn't returned to CD in the fifteen months since he (or she) created the post to which you replied.
FWIW.
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Thanks, Bill, for the update. I read what you said:
In this particular instance, however, I don't think you should expect a reply. According to @michae1 's profile, he (or she) has made one and only one visit to the CD forums, the June 20, 2020, visit that yielded this thread's OP. That is, @michae1 hasn't returned to CD in the fifteen months since he (or she) created the post to which you replied.
Bill,
My approach to posting is perhaps different from others. Threads that have NOT been closed by the chairman, Jan, it's in play for discussion and development. As you know, I try to read widely, present, and past posts here and elsewhere. I leave comments and start threads on a variety of subject matters in these forums.
So, when you, Bill, say:
"In this particular instance, however, I don't think you should expect a reply."
- No recent post from @michael1 doesn't mean S/he won't return. Yes, after "fifteen months."
- The poster does not copyright a thread.
- There are many threads here. One person can't get to all because of the volume, time, and interest.
- The subject matter has occurred several times recently in threads.
- If @michae1 NEVER returns CD, this doesn't make the thread, whose core, a biblical passage irrelevant in any way. Revelation 13 remains to be mined, like the rest of the Bible, after many years of its revelation by God.
- An undeveloped thread is like a seed lying dormant in the ground, waiting to be germinated to push its way through the stubborn soil to grow to its full potential. Here at CD, a thread, regardless of how long it posted, is just waiting for a new interest or person to come along to breathe life in it.
- Sometimes, old threads find new interests and new people interesting. And then, sometimes old posters see old threads with new eyes and interests. Let's not stifle CD's potential growth.
- As I said before, CD Readers are more than just us (posters).
@Bill_Coley said:
"... only one visit to the CD forums, the June 20, 2020, visit that yielded this thread's OP".
I don't see or have a problem with this. S/he contributed to CD. I am thankful. Neither of us knows why s/he didn't return.
@Bill_Coley said:
"... since he (or she) created the post to which you replied".
S/he left the Word behind to encourage others to do right by the text to illuminate darkened minds and proclaim the truth for these times. Those of us with reasonable knowledge, skills, interests, "Spirit-filled," including any newcomers, can make @michae1 desires a reality present or not.
So you see, the topic, the thread recently referred to, and renewed interest don't belong or requires @michae1 to be present or participate to certain any degree because it's the Word of God. @michae1 is invited to return, but this doesn't make him indispensable. A Divine Spirit inspired Holy men to write, and the Holy Spirit illuminated minds to exegete the passage. You, too, can be one of the minds if you choose to be used of God. We can sit around cursing the dark, or we can light a candle and dispel the darkness.
Thanks, again Bill, for the heads up. Let's hope @michae1 and CD alumnus (Galou, Reformed, Ramos, Dave, etc.) would return to help mine the passage above. "Many hands make work light." Notwithstanding, Rain, sleet, shine, or snow, biblical truth must go! CM
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@C Mc posted:
No recent post from @michael1 doesn't mean S/he won't return. Yes, after "fifteen months."
The poster does not copyright a thread.
There are many threads here. One person can't get to all because of the volume, time, and interest.
The subject matter has occurred several times recently in threads.
CM, I meant only to suggest that you shouldn't expect a reply from the original poster; I intended no negative comment about the value of the content of your posts. You addressed both of your posts in this thread directly to @michae1 , so I thought it worth my time to direct your attention to his (or her) profile.
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With all due respect, we seem to have a serious case of last-year's fruitcakes here.
Is this a joke?
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"Is it a joke," it's obvious, you didn't read my prior post to @Bill_Coley recently, yet you chose to comment pretty much the way he did. Just in case you didn't get it, no thread in CD is old in the sense that one can't add fresh thoughts or ideas to it. If the thread is not closed by the Chairman (Jan), it is in play. Perhaps, as a newcomer, you were not aware of this reality. However, if I am, remotely, wrong, I stand to be corrected by the Chairman. He may find it too nebulous to address in light of more important matters.
@michae1 may have started the thread last year, but the topic is fresh and relevant today, even if the poster is no longer active. Given, to my knowledge, @michae1 has not been banned or barred, s/he and any other former posters can return without an invitation or prior announcement. Again being a newbie to CD, you may not have known this. No, the topic nor the biblical passage (Revelation 13) is "a joke."
@byGeorge, perhaps, you have an issue with the topic more so than its location? You are free to your position. If it is the location, I don't find it a humiliation to start a new thread, independent of @michae1, keeping the topic fresh and a relevant biblical passage. If you don't like "fruitcake," you will pass it by just the same, whether this year or last year's. Again, here in CD, that's alright.
Lastly, I hope you're not like the dog and the hay. The dog was standing in the barnyard door, barking the horse away, and the dog couldn't eat the hay. I hope your remark isn't an attempt to keep others away from the topic ("The beast of Revelation 13); in reality, you don't have any interest in it. Let each post breathe, regardless of its location in the forums. Be an encourager. Blessings! CM
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That is an amazing post! Thanks.
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@michae1 and CD Posters,
Let's continue mine the passage. Remember, the Backdrop to this is the way in Rev. 12. Please re-read it and the above posts for the symbols, meanings, and characters to follow the narrative. After reading the chapter, you will see in Revelation 13; there are two beasts, not just one. The devil goes, and he gets his two friends:
The Sea Beast:
- Comes out of the sea.
- The devil could not work in his frontal attack, so now he changes his tactic and attempts to come in through the back door to destroy.
- The sea beast represents a counterfeit system of sacrifice.
- A system of godliness that denies the power of God.
- Sea beast is injured and receives a wound.
- He relies upon his other friend, the land beast.
The Land Beast (more deceptive than the sea beast).
- He looks like a lamb, but it speaks like a dragon.
- He represents a counterfeit:
- Christianity
- Christian movement
- System of holiness and sanctification
- Driven by signs and wonder and emotion.
- Driven by things contrary to God's government.
- He operates by force through legislation.
Are you following along so far? You don't have to be afraid of the Book of Revelation anymore. The book can be understood without going down rabbit holes of spurious interpretations. Keep studying. CM
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