Physical Kingdom Problems

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

    No, the text doesn't say that either. Satan is loosed then vanquished and the kingdom continues with a new paradigm.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @Dave_L said: "...The saints rule over Satan in his binding".

    I am somewhat disappointed that you didn't give me a direct answer to my question with a multiple choice selection. Perhaps, you would give these questions more consideration:

    1. Will the saints be in physical bodies or form in heaven?
    2. Where will the "saints rule over Satan in his binding"?
    3. Will they be in heaven or on earth according to Scripture?
    4. Will they be physical beings in a physical place, in heaven or on earth?
    5. If the saints are in heaven, will there be any activities on the earth? If so, what?

    I would like to know if your understanding of this passage [Rev. 20: 1-10] is the same mine or close to it. Please answer if not on the open forum, I'll take a PM. CM

    PS. If you want to reconsider earlier questions. See below:

    @ C_M_ said:

    • __ Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    • __Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    • __Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    Thanks for your consideration. CM

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "...The saints rule over Satan in his binding".

    I am somewhat disappointed that you didn't give me a direct answer to my question with a multiple choice selection. Perhaps, you would give these questions more consideration:

    1. Will the saints be in physical bodies or form in heaven?
    2. Where will the "saints rule over Satan in his binding"?
    3. Will they be in heaven or on earth according to Scripture?
    4. Will they be physical beings in a physical place, in heaven or on earth?
    5. If the saints are in heaven, will there be any activities on the earth? If so, what?

    I would like to know if your understanding of this passage [Rev. 20: 1-10] is the same mine or close to it. Please answer if not on the open forum, I'll take a PM. CM

    PS. If you want to reconsider earlier questions. See below:

    @ C_M_ said:

    • __ Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    • __Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    • __Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    Thanks for your consideration. CM

    I don't think your questions can be answered in a way that scripture supports. So I'll say this. Jesus said the kingdom is present, it is spiritual, flesh and blood cannot enter it, it comes without observation, and people must be born again to see it. So this rules out a physical kingdom altogether.

    On the last day, the restoration of Israel (believers in Christ) takes place in the resurrection (restoration) followed by the rapture of believers into heaven as the earth explodes in fire and the judgement of the resurrected wicked. Heaven and the new heavens and earth become one forever.

    We do not know what the resurrection body will be like, but it will be the same body Jesus now has in the spiritual domain of heaven.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

    No, the text doesn't say that either. Satan is loosed then vanquished and the kingdom continues with a new paradigm.

    If the 1000 years are the kingdom as you say, they end when Satan is loosed. But we know this isn't true, because the kingdom is forever.

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

    No, the text doesn't say that either. Satan is loosed then vanquished and the kingdom continues with a new paradigm.

    If the 1000 years are the kingdom as you say, they end when Satan is loosed. But we know this isn't true, because the kingdom is forever.

    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @Dave_L said: "What happens when the 1000 years end?..."

    A good question. Let's work backward if you like. The end of the millennium (1,000):

    1. Satan will be released from his chain.
    2. The wicked raised up
    3. Deception is revived
    4. The Holy City descends with the righteous.
    5. Satan marshalls his army to surround the city
    6. The Devil tries to take the city.
    7. The final judgment the Devil is cast into the "lake of fire".
    8. The wicked are destroyed with fire.

    @Dave_L said: "So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

    Please fix or clarified this statement above. For example, @ Dave_L said:

    A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    1. Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?
    2. "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    3. To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?

    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "...The saints rule over Satan in his binding".

    I am somewhat disappointed that you didn't give me a direct answer to my question with a multiple choice selection. Perhaps, you would give these questions more consideration:

    1. Will the saints be in physical bodies or form in heaven?
    2. Where will the "saints rule over Satan in his binding"?
    3. Will they be in heaven or on earth according to Scripture?
    4. Will they be physical beings in a physical place, in heaven or on earth?
    5. If the saints are in heaven, will there be any activities on the earth? If so, what?

    I would like to know if your understanding of this passage [Rev. 20: 1-10] is the same mine or close to it. Please answer if not on the open forum, I'll take a PM. CM

    PS. If you want to reconsider earlier questions. See below:

    @ C_M_ said:

    • __ Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    • __Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    • __Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    Thanks for your consideration. CM

    I don't think your questions can be answered in a way that scripture supports. So I'll say this. Jesus said the kingdom is present, it is spiritual, flesh and blood cannot enter it, it comes without observation, and people must be born again to see it. So this rules out a physical kingdom altogether.

    On the last day, the restoration of Israel (believers in Christ) takes place in the resurrection (restoration) followed by the rapture of believers into heaven as the earth explodes in fire and the judgement of the resurrected wicked. Heaven and the new heavens and earth become one forever.

    We do not know what the resurrection body will be like, but it will be the same body Jesus now has in the spiritual domain of heaven.

    Dave,
    As a "layman", how would you answer all my questions above since you say they can't be answered, "a way that scripture supports"? CM

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "...The saints rule over Satan in his binding".

    I am somewhat disappointed that you didn't give me a direct answer to my question with a multiple choice selection. Perhaps, you would give these questions more consideration:

    1. Will the saints be in physical bodies or form in heaven?
    2. Where will the "saints rule over Satan in his binding"?
    3. Will they be in heaven or on earth according to Scripture?
    4. Will they be physical beings in a physical place, in heaven or on earth?
    5. If the saints are in heaven, will there be any activities on the earth? If so, what?

    I would like to know if your understanding of this passage [Rev. 20: 1-10] is the same mine or close to it. Please answer if not on the open forum, I'll take a PM. CM

    PS. If you want to reconsider earlier questions. See below:

    @ C_M_ said:

    • __ Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    • __Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    • __Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    Thanks for your consideration. CM

    I don't think your questions can be answered in a way that scripture supports. So I'll say this. Jesus said the kingdom is present, it is spiritual, flesh and blood cannot enter it, it comes without observation, and people must be born again to see it. So this rules out a physical kingdom altogether.

    On the last day, the restoration of Israel (believers in Christ) takes place in the resurrection (restoration) followed by the rapture of believers into heaven as the earth explodes in fire and the judgement of the resurrected wicked. Heaven and the new heavens and earth become one forever.

    We do not know what the resurrection body will be like, but it will be the same body Jesus now has in the spiritual domain of heaven.

    Dave,
    As a "layman", how would you answer all my questions above since you say they can't be answered, "a way that scripture supports"? CM

    Your questions are loaded according to your misunderstanding of the kingdom.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "What happens when the 1000 years end?..."

    A good question. Let's work backward if you like. The end of the millennium (1,000):

    1. Satan will be released from his chain.
    2. The wicked raised up
    3. Deception is revived
    4. The Holy City descends with the righteous.
    5. Satan marshalls his army to surround the city
    6. The Devil tries to take the city.
    7. The final judgment the Devil is cast into the "lake of fire".
    8. The wicked are destroyed with fire.

    @Dave_L said: "So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

    Please fix or clarified this statement above. For example, @ Dave_L said:

    A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    1. Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?
    2. "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    3. To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?

    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

    No, the text doesn't say that either. Satan is loosed then vanquished and the kingdom continues with a new paradigm.

    If the 1000 years are the kingdom as you say, they end when Satan is loosed. But we know this isn't true, because the kingdom is forever.

    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2018

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:
    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    For some reason those who speak about a "1000 year kingdom" or "millennial kingdom" are apparently not realizing what their talk about "1000 year kingdom" really means.
    If there indeed is a "1000 year kingdom", then that kingdom is over, finished and completed when the 1000 years are done.

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0

    @Dave_L said:
    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

    Since "flesh and blood" cannot enter the kingdom, it should be clear that this kingdom is NOT a physical kingdom on earth where people of flesh and blood live and therefore should be entering such an earthly physical kingdom.

    In addition, I would point again to a previous point I made in regards to the expression "kingdom" => the word actually means "reign", it refers to the act of reigning, not to a physical sphere such as a country and its people who are under the reign of a king.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @Wolfgang said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:
    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    For some reason those who speak about a "1000 year kingdom" or "millennial kingdom" are apparently not realizing what their talk about "1000 year kingdom" really means.
    If there indeed is a "1000 year kingdom", then that kingdom is over, finished and completed when the 1000 years are done.

    I agree.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @Wolfgang said:

    @Dave_L said:
    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

    Since "flesh and blood" cannot enter the kingdom, it should be clear that this kingdom is NOT a physical kingdom on earth where people of flesh and blood live and therefore should be entering such an earthly physical kingdom.

    In addition, I would point again to a previous point I made in regards to the expression "kingdom" => the word actually means "reign", it refers to the act of reigning, not to a physical sphere such as a country and its people who are under the reign of a king.

    Thanks for pointing this out.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "What happens when the 1000 years end?..."

    A good question. Let's work backward if you like. The end of the millennium (1,000):

    1. Satan will be released from his chain.
    2. The wicked raised up
    3. Deception is revived
    4. The Holy City descends with the righteous.
    5. Satan marshalls his army to surround the city
    6. The Devil tries to take the city.
    7. The final judgment the Devil is cast into the "lake of fire".
    8. The wicked are destroyed with fire.

    @Dave_L said: "So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

    Please fix or clarified this statement above. For example, @ Dave_L said:

    A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    1. Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?
    2. "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    3. To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?

    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

    Dave,
    Do you agree with my 8 points at the end of the millennium?
    once again...

    @C_M_ said: A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?

    "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?
    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "What happens when the 1000 years end?..."

    A good question. Let's work backward if you like. The end of the millennium (1,000):

    1. Satan will be released from his chain.
    2. The wicked raised up
    3. Deception is revived
    4. The Holy City descends with the righteous.
    5. Satan marshalls his army to surround the city
    6. The Devil tries to take the city.
    7. The final judgment the Devil is cast into the "lake of fire".
    8. The wicked are destroyed with fire.

    @Dave_L said: "So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

    Please fix or clarified this statement above. For example, @ Dave_L said:

    A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    1. Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?
    2. "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    3. To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?

    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

    Dave,
    Do you agree with my 8 points at the end of the millennium?
    once again...

    @C_M_ said: A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?

    "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?
    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    There is no millennium. How can I agree with any of your points.

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

    No, the text doesn't say that either. Satan is loosed then vanquished and the kingdom continues with a new paradigm.

    If the 1000 years are the kingdom as you say, they end when Satan is loosed. But we know this isn't true, because the kingdom is forever.

    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    No Dave, this is a perfect example that you don't understand the points of view that you attack. You don't even know what they believe and make assumptions.> @Wolfgang said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:
    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    For some reason those who speak about a "1000 year kingdom" or "millennial kingdom" are apparently not realizing what their talk about "1000 year kingdom" really means.
    If there indeed is a "1000 year kingdom", then that kingdom is over, finished and completed when the 1000 years are done.

    No, a President is President for 4-8 years in the USA. Then those years are done does that mean the USA is over? No. It's a set period of time for certain events to unfold. That is the 1,000 year reign. It has nothing to do with the start or stop of Christ's ultimate rule.

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "What happens when the 1000 years end?..."

    A good question. Let's work backward if you like. The end of the millennium (1,000):

    1. Satan will be released from his chain.
    2. The wicked raised up
    3. Deception is revived
    4. The Holy City descends with the righteous.
    5. Satan marshalls his army to surround the city
    6. The Devil tries to take the city.
    7. The final judgment the Devil is cast into the "lake of fire".
    8. The wicked are destroyed with fire.

    @Dave_L said: "So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

    Please fix or clarified this statement above. For example, @ Dave_L said:

    A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    1. Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?
    2. "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    3. To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?

    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

    Dave,
    Do you agree with my 8 points at the end of the millennium?
    once again...

    @C_M_ said: A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?

    "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?
    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    There is no millennium. How can I agree with any of your points.

    You have yet to Scripturally prove this. Revelation SPECIFICALLY says 1,000 years reigning with Christ and you have yet to deal with that satisfactorily.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

    No, the text doesn't say that either. Satan is loosed then vanquished and the kingdom continues with a new paradigm.

    If the 1000 years are the kingdom as you say, they end when Satan is loosed. But we know this isn't true, because the kingdom is forever.

    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    No Dave, this is a perfect example that you don't understand the points of view that you attack. You don't even know what they believe and make assumptions.> @Wolfgang said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:
    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    For some reason those who speak about a "1000 year kingdom" or "millennial kingdom" are apparently not realizing what their talk about "1000 year kingdom" really means.
    If there indeed is a "1000 year kingdom", then that kingdom is over, finished and completed when the 1000 years are done.

    No, a President is President for 4-8 years in the USA. Then those years are done does that mean the USA is over? No. It's a set period of time for certain events to unfold. That is the 1,000 year reign. It has nothing to do with the start or stop of Christ's ultimate rule.

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "What happens when the 1000 years end?..."

    A good question. Let's work backward if you like. The end of the millennium (1,000):

    1. Satan will be released from his chain.
    2. The wicked raised up
    3. Deception is revived
    4. The Holy City descends with the righteous.
    5. Satan marshalls his army to surround the city
    6. The Devil tries to take the city.
    7. The final judgment the Devil is cast into the "lake of fire".
    8. The wicked are destroyed with fire.

    @Dave_L said: "So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

    Please fix or clarified this statement above. For example, @ Dave_L said:

    A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    1. Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?
    2. "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    3. To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?

    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

    Dave,
    Do you agree with my 8 points at the end of the millennium?
    once again...

    @C_M_ said: A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?

    "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?
    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    There is no millennium. How can I agree with any of your points.

    You have yet to Scripturally prove this. Revelation SPECIFICALLY says 1,000 years reigning with Christ and you have yet to deal with that satisfactorily.

    Regardless of all the maneuvers to prove your point, the kingdom is here now. It is spiritual, and only the born again can see it. Are you born again? If so, it is discernible now.

    · Share on TwitterShare on Facebook
  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

    No, the text doesn't say that either. Satan is loosed then vanquished and the kingdom continues with a new paradigm.

    If the 1000 years are the kingdom as you say, they end when Satan is loosed. But we know this isn't true, because the kingdom is forever.

    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    No Dave, this is a perfect example that you don't understand the points of view that you attack. You don't even know what they believe and make assumptions.> @Wolfgang said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:
    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    For some reason those who speak about a "1000 year kingdom" or "millennial kingdom" are apparently not realizing what their talk about "1000 year kingdom" really means.
    If there indeed is a "1000 year kingdom", then that kingdom is over, finished and completed when the 1000 years are done.

    No, a President is President for 4-8 years in the USA. Then those years are done does that mean the USA is over? No. It's a set period of time for certain events to unfold. That is the 1,000 year reign. It has nothing to do with the start or stop of Christ's ultimate rule.

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "What happens when the 1000 years end?..."

    A good question. Let's work backward if you like. The end of the millennium (1,000):

    1. Satan will be released from his chain.
    2. The wicked raised up
    3. Deception is revived
    4. The Holy City descends with the righteous.
    5. Satan marshalls his army to surround the city
    6. The Devil tries to take the city.
    7. The final judgment the Devil is cast into the "lake of fire".
    8. The wicked are destroyed with fire.

    @Dave_L said: "So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

    Please fix or clarified this statement above. For example, @ Dave_L said:

    A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    1. Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?
    2. "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    3. To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?

    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

    Dave,
    Do you agree with my 8 points at the end of the millennium?
    once again...

    @C_M_ said: A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?

    "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?
    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    There is no millennium. How can I agree with any of your points.

    You have yet to Scripturally prove this. Revelation SPECIFICALLY says 1,000 years reigning with Christ and you have yet to deal with that satisfactorily.

    Regardless of all the maneuvers to prove your point, the kingdom is here now. It is spiritual, and only the born again can see it. Are you born again? If so, it is discernible now.

    Again you dodge and deflect. I have NEVER said the Kingdom is not here now. So now that you know I agree on that point, it is time you actually deal with my response to you.

    · Share on TwitterShare on Facebook
  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:
    The Nicene Creed

    [Jesus] and ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end.

    @ Dave_L said: The Nicene Creed...

    What does the Bible say on the matter?

    @Dave_L said: "Note how this refutes a 1000 year physical kingdom........."

    Where?

    What are you trying to say?

    1. Is there no physical "Kingdom" in heaven nor on earth?
    2. Or there is no physical "Kingdom" during the Millennium?
    3. Or there is physical "Kingdom" only in heaven during the Millennium?

    Please review all that I have shared and then select one of the above. CM

    It says nothing about a physical 1000 year long kingdom if you consider the New Testament as the final authority.

    Then what are the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 Dave? You can't just ignore that it is there...

    Let's not read anything into the passage and see what it says. The 1000 years are the binding of Satan. When they end Satan is loosed. The saints reign over him in this binding.

    The 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom (still present) when the 1000 years end and he is loosed.

    To what extent is Satan bound? Answer: From deceiving the nations. When loosed, he deceives the nations (Gog and Magog) causing them to attack the Kingdom (Church).

    We must limit his binding to not being able to deceive the elect from around the world or we violate much of the NT.

    Dave you are ignoring a very key part of the passage. Please note verses 4-8. This clearly talks about believers reigning WITH CHRIST for 1,000 years while Satan is bound.

    I mentioned this. The saints rule over Satan in his binding.

    That's not what it says. You read that into the text.

    What happens when the 1000 years end? Satan Loosed? Or kingdom ends? If the 1000 years are the kingdom, it ends.

    No, the text doesn't say that either. Satan is loosed then vanquished and the kingdom continues with a new paradigm.

    If the 1000 years are the kingdom as you say, they end when Satan is loosed. But we know this isn't true, because the kingdom is forever.

    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    No Dave, this is a perfect example that you don't understand the points of view that you attack. You don't even know what they believe and make assumptions.> @Wolfgang said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:
    The 1,000 year period ends, yes. Not once have I said the Kingdom ends after those 1,000 years. I don't know of one single theologian that holds to the 1,000 years that argues that.

    You think the 1000 years are the kingdom = the kingdom ends with the 1000 years.

    For some reason those who speak about a "1000 year kingdom" or "millennial kingdom" are apparently not realizing what their talk about "1000 year kingdom" really means.
    If there indeed is a "1000 year kingdom", then that kingdom is over, finished and completed when the 1000 years are done.

    No, a President is President for 4-8 years in the USA. Then those years are done does that mean the USA is over? No. It's a set period of time for certain events to unfold. That is the 1,000 year reign. It has nothing to do with the start or stop of Christ's ultimate rule.

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said: "What happens when the 1000 years end?..."

    A good question. Let's work backward if you like. The end of the millennium (1,000):

    1. Satan will be released from his chain.
    2. The wicked raised up
    3. Deception is revived
    4. The Holy City descends with the righteous.
    5. Satan marshalls his army to surround the city
    6. The Devil tries to take the city.
    7. The final judgment the Devil is cast into the "lake of fire".
    8. The wicked are destroyed with fire.

    @Dave_L said: "So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

    Please fix or clarified this statement above. For example, @ Dave_L said:

    A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    1. Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?
    2. "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    3. To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?

    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, only glorified saints are there when Satan is loosed.

    Dave,
    Do you agree with my 8 points at the end of the millennium?
    once again...

    @C_M_ said: A "...myriads of glorified saints would...form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints."

    Is this a typo? If not, are you saying, Saints fighting Saints?

    "Glorified saints" forms "Gog and Magog"?
    To your understanding what is "Gog and Magog"? Is it a place or a situation?
    I don't expect you to know it all, but to clarify your understanding. Let's mine the passage together. CM

    There is no millennium. How can I agree with any of your points.

    You have yet to Scripturally prove this. Revelation SPECIFICALLY says 1,000 years reigning with Christ and you have yet to deal with that satisfactorily.

    Regardless of all the maneuvers to prove your point, the kingdom is here now. It is spiritual, and only the born again can see it. Are you born again? If so, it is discernible now.

    Again you dodge and deflect. I have NEVER said the Kingdom is not here now. So now that you know I agree on that point, it is time you actually deal with my response to you.

    There is only one spiritual kingdom and no physical kingdom possible in this world. So your point is pointless.

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0

    @reformed said:
    No, a President is President for 4-8 years in the USA. Then those years are done does that mean the USA is over? No.

    It does mean that the particular President's rule is most definitely over!!

    It's a set period of time for certain events to unfold. That is the 1,000 year reign. It has nothing to do with the start or stop of Christ's ultimate rule.

    The problem is that it is claimed that there is a "millennial reign of Christ" .. IF there is, then it is over at the end of the millennium time span .... just as the particular President's rule or administration is over after 4 or 8 years because a president's term of ruling is 4 or 2x4 (8) years.

    You have yet to Scripturally prove this. Revelation SPECIFICALLY says 1,000 years reigning with Christ and you have yet to deal with that satisfactorily.

    As I already mentioned. Rev 20:4 is NOT speaking about a "millennial reign of Christ" ... actually, according to plain straight forward English course in high school, that verse is speaking about certain believers reigning ... (cp. grammar of the sentence and sentence structure)

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @Dave_L said:

    There is no millennium...

    • If "there is no millennium", does this means there is none physically, mentally or spiritually?
    • If "there is no millennium", how can nothing have a beginning and ending?

    Dave, thanks for your response. However, you make me laugh, a bit. You seem to be playing spiritual wack-a-mole with this topic of the Millennium.

    1. Did the writer John, on the Isle of Patmos, under inspiration ("God breathe"), in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, got it (Millennium thing) wrong?
    2. Was he mistaken in his reception and/or what he received in vision?
    3. Did the translators of the Bible make a mistake in the translation of 1,000 years?
    4. Is the Millennium a figment of John's imagination, after all, he was old?

    5. Is the Millennium made up by theologians? I know the word "Millennium" is not in the Bible. See further:
      -- "The word millennium comes from the Latin word mille, meaning "thousand," and annus, meaning "year." Thus millennium is a period of one thousand years. The word millennium itself does not appear in the Bible, but Revelation 20 describes a thousand year time period that begins when Jesus returns the second time."

      -- The Bible clearly teaches that Satan is bound to this earth during the millennium-or thousand-year period-following Jesus' second coming (Rev. 20:1-3).

      • Do you believe the Bible?
      • Do accept what the Book of Revelation teaches in the 20th chapter?
      • Do you want to reconsider your "there is no millennium" position?

    6. When you say, "there is no millennium", you mean there is no time-frame, place or space of a 1,000 years in heaven or on earth?

    7. Lastly, please tell me, Dave, if there is a "Millennium" of any kind, anywhere, in any form, what is its purpose? Better yet, what does the passage in Rev. 20, say it purpose is?

    These questions are addressed to you, but anyone who believes as you can answer them. Let mine the passage and not rehash one's pet theological position regardless of one's endearment to it. CM

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    There is no millennium...

    • If "there is no millennium", does this means there is none physically, mentally or spiritually?
    • If "there is no millennium", how can nothing have a beginning and ending?

    Dave, thanks for your response. However, you make me laugh, a bit. You seem to be playing spiritual wack-a-mole with this topic of the Millennium.

    1. Did the writer John, on the Isle of Patmos, under inspiration ("God breathe"), in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, got it (Millennium thing) wrong?
    2. Was he mistaken in his reception and/or what he received in vision?
    3. Did the translators of the Bible make a mistake in the translation of 1,000 years?
    4. Is the Millennium a figment of John's imagination, after all, he was old?

    5. Is the Millennium made up by theologians? I know the word "Millennium" is not in the Bible. See further:
      -- "The word millennium comes from the Latin word mille, meaning "thousand," and annus, meaning "year." Thus millennium is a period of one thousand years. The word millennium itself does not appear in the Bible, but Revelation 20 describes a thousand year time period that begins when Jesus returns the second time."

      -- The Bible clearly teaches that Satan is bound to this earth during the millennium-or thousand-year period-following Jesus' second coming (Rev. 20:1-3).

      • Do you believe the Bible?
      • Do accept what the Book of Revelation teaches in the 20th chapter?
      • Do you want to reconsider your "there is no millennium" position?

    6. When you say, "there is no millennium", you mean there is no time-frame, place or space of a 1,000 years in heaven or on earth?

    7. Lastly, please tell me, Dave, if there is a "Millennium" of any kind, anywhere, in any form, what is its purpose? Better yet, what does the passage in Rev. 20, say it purpose is?

    These questions are addressed to you, but anyone who believes as you can answer them. Let mine the passage and not rehash one's pet theological position regardless of one's endearment to it. CM

    no millennium, zero. Jesus rules it out many times if you carefully read your Gospels.

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @Dave_L said:

    There is no millennium...

    • If "there is no millennium", does this means there is none physically, mentally or spiritually?
    • If "there is no millennium", how can nothing have a beginning and ending?

    Dave, thanks for your response. However, you make me laugh, a bit. You seem to be playing spiritual wack-a-mole with this topic of the Millennium.

    1. Did the writer John, on the Isle of Patmos, under inspiration ("God breathe"), in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, got it (Millennium thing) wrong?
    2. Was he mistaken in his reception and/or what he received in vision?
    3. Did the translators of the Bible make a mistake in the translation of 1,000 years?
    4. Is the Millennium a figment of John's imagination, after all, he was old?

    5. Is the Millennium made up by theologians? I know the word "Millennium" is not in the Bible. See further:
      -- "The word millennium comes from the Latin word mille, meaning "thousand," and annus, meaning "year." Thus millennium is a period of one thousand years. The word millennium itself does not appear in the Bible, but Revelation 20 describes a thousand year time period that begins when Jesus returns the second time."

      -- The Bible clearly teaches that Satan is bound to this earth during the millennium-or thousand-year period-following Jesus' second coming (Rev. 20:1-3).

      • Do you believe the Bible?
      • Do accept what the Book of Revelation teaches in the 20th chapter?
      • Do you want to reconsider your "there is no millennium" position?

    6. When you say, "there is no millennium", you mean there is no time-frame, place or space of a 1,000 years in heaven or on earth?

    7. Lastly, please tell me, Dave, if there is a "Millennium" of any kind, anywhere, in any form, what is its purpose? Better yet, what does the passage in Rev. 20, say it purpose is?

    These questions are addressed to you, but anyone who believes as you can answer them. Let mine the passage and not rehash one's pet theological position regardless of one's endearment to it. CM

    no millennium, zero. Jesus rules it out many times if you carefully read your Gospels.

    So you reject Revelation as Scripture?

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    No, that's why I shudder when you add to it.

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:
    No, that's why I shudder when you add to it.

    I'm not adding anything to it. On the other hand, you ARE taking away from it which is equally as bad.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    No, that's why I shudder when you add to it.

    I'm not adding anything to it. On the other hand, you ARE taking away from it which is equally as bad.

    No, you reject Jesus' words and agree with the pharisees instead.

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    No, that's why I shudder when you add to it.

    I'm not adding anything to it. On the other hand, you ARE taking away from it which is equally as bad.

    No, you reject Jesus' words and agree with the pharisees instead.

    No Dave, I don't. Revelation specifically talks about 1,000 years. So you have a few options:

    1. Revelation isn't actually Scripture.
    2. Revelation contradicts Scripture.
    3. You are missing something in translation and your view is incorrect.

    Those are your options.

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