Dispensationalism: Establishing an Understanding

C Mc
C Mc Posts: 4,463
in Apologetics

Dispensationalism is a theological belief attributed to John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). One of the fundamental doctrines of Dispensationalism – a theological system founded by J.N. Darby in the 1830s – is that “Israel” and “the Church” are entirely separate entities. Dispensationalist Charles C. Ryrie confessed:

  • “The Church/Israel distinction is the best way to determine whether or not someone is a dispensationalist – the most criterion” (Dispensationalism Today, by Charles C. Ryrie, Moody Press, 1965, pps. 44-45, 132).

PS. Is the above true? CM

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @C_M_ said:
    Dispensationalism is a theological belief attributed to John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). One of the fundamental doctrines of Dispensationalism – a theological system founded by J.N. Darby in the 1830s – is that “Israel” and “the Church” are entirely separate entities. Dispensationalist Charles C. Ryrie confessed:

    • “The Church/Israel distinction is the best way to determine whether or not someone is a dispensationalist – the most criterion” (Dispensationalism Today, by Charles C. Ryrie, Moody Press, 1965, pps. 44-45, 132).

    PS. Is the above true? CM

    Mostly true. Darby didn't really found the system but more so labeled and organized the system that was already in place for centuries.

    Yes, it is true Dispensationalists generally make a distinction between Israel/Church but to say that DEFINES Dispensationalism is inadequate. That is only a part.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @reformed said:

    Mostly true. Darby didn't really found the system but more so labeled and organized the system that was already in place for centuries.

    Yes, it is true Dispensationalists generally make a distinction between Israel/Church but to say that DEFINES Dispensationalism is inadequate. That is only a part.

    So, you disagree with Dispensationalist Charles C. Ryrie?

    “The Church/Israel distinction is the best way to determine whether or not someone is a dispensationalist – the most criterion”

       (Dispensationalism Today, by Charles C. Ryrie, Moody Press, 1965, pps. 44-45, 132).

    Is he wrong? CM

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176
    edited October 2018

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Mostly true. Darby didn't really found the system but more so labeled and organized the system that was already in place for centuries.

    Yes, it is true Dispensationalists generally make a distinction between Israel/Church but to say that DEFINES Dispensationalism is inadequate. That is only a part.

    So, you disagree with Dispensationalist Charles C. Ryrie?

    “The Church/Israel distinction is the best way to determine whether or not someone is a dispensationalist – the most criterion”

       (Dispensationalism Today, by Charles C. Ryrie, Moody Press, 1965, pps. 44-45, 132).

    Is he wrong? CM

    No, I don't disagree with him, quite the opposite. I even said, it is true that this is a distinction Dispensationalists generally make. However, that is not the definition of Dispensationalism and Ryrie says as much in the very book that quote comes from.

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @reformed said:
    No, I don't disagree with him, quite the opposite. I even said, it is true that this is a distinction Dispensationalists generally make. However, that is not the definition of Dispensationalism and Ryrie says as much in the very book that quote comes from.

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    Great! Please, give me the "definition of Dispensationalism". Thank you. CM

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    In addition, would I be correct in saying that Dispensationalism conveys how God deals with humanity throughout biblical history in a number of periods (usually seven) of time, economies, administrations, or dispensations? i.e.,

    1. Innocence
    2. Conscience
    3. Government
    4. Patriarchal Rule
    5. Mosaic Law
    6. Grace or the Church Age
    7. The Millennial Kingdom

    If so, what does each means, what's the length of each period and what period is the world today? CM

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:
    No, I don't disagree with him, quite the opposite. I even said, it is true that this is a distinction Dispensationalists generally make. However, that is not the definition of Dispensationalism and Ryrie says as much in the very book that quote comes from.

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    Great! Please, give me the "definition of Dispensationalism". Thank you. CM

    As I said in the other post, there is not just a simple definition. but I provided an article in another post to help you understand Dispensational Theology. https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1070&context=pretrib_arch

    @C_M_ said:
    In addition, would I be correct in saying that Dispensationalism conveys how God deals with humanity throughout biblical history in a number of periods (usually seven) of time, economies, administrations, or dispensations? i.e.,

    1. Innocence
    2. Conscience
    3. Government
    4. Patriarchal Rule
    5. Mosaic Law
    6. Grace or the Church Age
    7. The Millennial Kingdom

    If so, what does each means, what's the length of each period and what period is the world today? CM

    Church Age.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    Dispensationalism Today? Is that like Truth Today? Not the same as yesterday?

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Great! Please, give me the "definition of Dispensationalism". Thank you. CM

    As I said in the other post, there is not just a simple definition. but I provided an article in another post to help you understand Dispensational Theology. https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1070&context=pretrib_arch

    I read the article. This why I am asking questions?

    @C_M_ said:
    In addition, would I be correct in saying that Dispensationalism conveys how God deals with humanity throughout biblical history in a number of periods (usually seven) of time, economies, administrations, or dispensations? i.e.,

    1. Innocence
    2. Conscience
    3. Government
    4. Patriarchal Rule
    5. Mosaic Law
    6. Grace or the Church Age
    7. The Millennial Kingdom

    If so, what does each means, what's the length of each period and what period is the world today? CM

    Church Age.

    Thanks for your response. However, this is only a partial answer to my concerns.

    1. What does each means?
    2. What's the length of each period?
    3. What indicates the starting and closing points? Is it a date or an event?

    Please explain. CM

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:
    Great! Please, give me the "definition of Dispensationalism". Thank you. CM

    As I said in the other post, there is not just a simple definition. but I provided an article in another post to help you understand Dispensational Theology. https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1070&context=pretrib_arch

    I read the article. This why I am asking questions?

    @C_M_ said:
    In addition, would I be correct in saying that Dispensationalism conveys how God deals with humanity throughout biblical history in a number of periods (usually seven) of time, economies, administrations, or dispensations? i.e.,

    1. Innocence
    2. Conscience
    3. Government
    4. Patriarchal Rule
    5. Mosaic Law
    6. Grace or the Church Age
    7. The Millennial Kingdom

    If so, what does each means, what's the length of each period and what period is the world today? CM

    Church Age.

    Thanks for your response. However, this is only a partial answer to my concerns.

    1. What does each means?
    2. What's the length of each period?
    3. What indicates the starting and closing points? Is it a date or an event?

    Please explain. CM

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense. There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost. I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @C_M_ said:
    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    You haven't answered my question as asked. Can you at least list them, even if you can't explain them:

    1. The three types of modern dispensationalism?
    2. Which one Dr. Ryrie belonged, invented, or advocated?
    3. Which one did he teach you?
    4. Which one do you espouse, Reformed?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    @ reformed said: "I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps"?

    • "Hodgepodge" -- "mixture, mix, mixed-bag, assortment, random collection, conglomeration, jumble, ragbag, grab bag, miscellany, medley, salmagundi, potpourri, patchwork, pastiche" of theological terms, studies, theories of religious movements or self-developed ideas of God.

    This is what I mean. Is this clear?

    Reformed, before we go too far from the beginning, I still want to know:

    1. Does the Bible teach that world history is to be divided into seven dispensations?

    2. Is this breakdown below biblical?

      • "Innocence"
      • "Conscience"
      • "Government"
      • "Patriarchal Rule"
      • "Mosaic Law"
      • "Grace or the Church Age"
      • "The Millennial Kingdom"

    3. Please, tell me what does each mean?

    If you would consider answering the questions, in this post, it would surely, help the conversation and keep us from talking (typing) in circles. At the end of the day, all will learn something and be enlightened. Thanks. CM

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    · Share on TwitterShare on Facebook
  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    Ok, that is not Dispensationalism.

    · Share on TwitterShare on Facebook
  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    Ok, that is not Dispensationalism.

    It came from Dispensationalists who believed the generation seeing Israel's in 1948 return would not pass until all was fulfilled. And this loused people up.

    · Share on TwitterShare on Facebook
  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    Ok, that is not Dispensationalism.

    It came from Dispensationalists who believed the generation seeing Israel's in 1948 return would not pass until all was fulfilled. And this loused people up.

    Just because a few people who claim to be Dispensationalists did/said that does not make it Dispensationalism.

    Hyper-Calvinists say we don't need to evangelize because the elect will get saved regardless. That's not Calvinism.

    You can't lump a whole group because of a few bad eggs. So NO that is NOT Dispensationalism and if that is what you are basing your hatred of Dispensationalism over you are in the wrong.

    · Share on TwitterShare on Facebook
  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    Ok, that is not Dispensationalism.

    It came from Dispensationalists who believed the generation seeing Israel's in 1948 return would not pass until all was fulfilled. And this loused people up.

    Just because a few people who claim to be Dispensationalists did/said that does not make it Dispensationalism.

    Hyper-Calvinists say we don't need to evangelize because the elect will get saved regardless. That's not Calvinism.

    You can't lump a whole group because of a few bad eggs. So NO that is NOT Dispensationalism and if that is what you are basing your hatred of Dispensationalism over you are in the wrong.

    If you could quote Ryrie using one direct quote from scripture supporting any futuristic Dispensational claims, you would gain possibly an inch in the direction of truth.

    · Share on TwitterShare on Facebook
  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    Ok, that is not Dispensationalism.

    It came from Dispensationalists who believed the generation seeing Israel's in 1948 return would not pass until all was fulfilled. And this loused people up.

    Just because a few people who claim to be Dispensationalists did/said that does not make it Dispensationalism.

    Hyper-Calvinists say we don't need to evangelize because the elect will get saved regardless. That's not Calvinism.

    You can't lump a whole group because of a few bad eggs. So NO that is NOT Dispensationalism and if that is what you are basing your hatred of Dispensationalism over you are in the wrong.

    If you could quote Ryrie using one direct quote from scripture supporting any futuristic Dispensational claims, you would gain possibly an inch in the direction of truth.

    What does this have to do with anything I just said to you?

    · Share on TwitterShare on Facebook
  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    Ok, that is not Dispensationalism.

    It came from Dispensationalists who believed the generation seeing Israel's in 1948 return would not pass until all was fulfilled. And this loused people up.

    Just because a few people who claim to be Dispensationalists did/said that does not make it Dispensationalism.

    Hyper-Calvinists say we don't need to evangelize because the elect will get saved regardless. That's not Calvinism.

    You can't lump a whole group because of a few bad eggs. So NO that is NOT Dispensationalism and if that is what you are basing your hatred of Dispensationalism over you are in the wrong.

    If you could quote Ryrie using one direct quote from scripture supporting any futuristic Dispensational claims, you would gain possibly an inch in the direction of truth.

    What does this have to do with anything I just said to you?

    You do not have a scriptural case for anything you say, and you also lose credibility for other things you say if you cannot back any of your futuristic claims with direct quotes from scripture. Song and dance routines containing imaginary gaps, and portions of scripture removed from their context only lessen your credibility more.

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  • reformed
    reformed Posts: 3,176

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    Ok, that is not Dispensationalism.

    It came from Dispensationalists who believed the generation seeing Israel's in 1948 return would not pass until all was fulfilled. And this loused people up.

    Just because a few people who claim to be Dispensationalists did/said that does not make it Dispensationalism.

    Hyper-Calvinists say we don't need to evangelize because the elect will get saved regardless. That's not Calvinism.

    You can't lump a whole group because of a few bad eggs. So NO that is NOT Dispensationalism and if that is what you are basing your hatred of Dispensationalism over you are in the wrong.

    If you could quote Ryrie using one direct quote from scripture supporting any futuristic Dispensational claims, you would gain possibly an inch in the direction of truth.

    What does this have to do with anything I just said to you?

    You do not have a scriptural case for anything you say, and you also lose credibility for other things you say if you cannot back any of your futuristic claims with direct quotes from scripture. Song and dance routines containing imaginary gaps, and portions of scripture removed from their context only lessen your credibility more.

    Dave you don't accept (or even read) any Scriptural evidence I supply on this subject, so if anyone loses credibility here it is you.

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  • Dave_L
    Dave_L Posts: 2,362
    edited October 2018

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:

    @reformed said:

    @Dave_L said:
    Three types of Dispensationalism = two are false?

    That would be the general assumption.

    Ultradispensationalism is false, and Ryrie believed that Progressive Dispensationalism is also a distortion of doctrine.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    I actually had the privilege of studying under Dr. Ryrie before he went to glory and have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

    As for the late Dr. Ryrie, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism did Dr. Ryrie belonged or taught you?

    What are the "three types of modern dispensationalism" and what does each means?
    Please enlighten me.

    In future, I want to be able to speak with understanding, given you sat at the feet of the late Dr. Ryrie, a Famed Dispensationalist.

    Notwithstanding, of most important, which of the three types of modern dispensationalism do you, Reformed, espouses?

    @ reformed said: "... there is not just a simple definition..."

    Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    I remain. CM

    I don't know what you mean by a hodgepodge of theological scraps?

    Thanks, Do you think Dispensationalism damages kids psychologically? Possibly it indoctrinates them with a false world view? There is a Twitter support group for those with #RaptureAnxiety. Many share their recovery efforts.

    No Dave, I don't. There are people who distort Dispensationalism and create things like Rapture Anxiety. But that's not due to Dispensationalism itself. You can distort anything.

    I was in a Rapture Ready Church where the kids were doing a skit. And these clearly had a distorted world view and little hope in a future. If you know the biblical outline for the future, these were clearly being cheated out of life and any hopes of a future.

    Not sure what any of this means, you will need to give more detail about what you are talking about, preferably in its own thread.

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    @C_M_ said:

    @reformed said:

    Honestly we could write a whole thesis on this, it doesn't lend itself to a forum discussion. I recommend the book Dispensationalism by Ryrie. https://www.amazon.com/Dispensationalism-Charles-C-Ryrie/dp/080242189X

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am sure my question could be answered with writing a whole thesis.

    CORRECTIONS: I am sure my question could be answered WITHOUT writing a whole thesis.

    There are no set lengths for a period they are opened and closed by events.

    Your response borders on nonsense. How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers? You sat at Ryrie's feet, what was taught? Do you have his book? Is the answer in his book? May I suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you. CM

    I'm not sure how this borders on nonsense.

    See above or below:

    CM said: "How can something closes if the start is not known? On the other hand, there is "no set lengths for a period". How do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers"?

    There are event markers. The church age started at Pentecost.

    What about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously) but you are asking very broad questions that are not appropriate for a forum setting.

    The last time I checked, the name of the New CD was changed to "Christian Debate".
    I don't care for debate myself, but if the truth is told, the "questions" and the " forum setting" are "appropriate".

    I thought the broad questions would have been easier to answer. Given that you sat at the feet of Dr. Ryrie, you would have at least recalled the broad things. Besides, I suggested:

    CM said: "suggest you review your notes or inquire to someone more familiar with Dispensationalism than you.

    I have given you resources that give all of the answers you are looking for in detail.

    For expanded details, I understand. As for broad points, you can't answer what you promote with your bold assertion?

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    I remember Christ was supposed to return within 40 years (one generation) of 1948. And when that didn't happen it was within 40 years of the 6 day war. and so on. So plans for life were foolish if you believed any of the Dispensationalists preaching this.

    Ok, that is not Dispensationalism.

    It came from Dispensationalists who believed the generation seeing Israel's in 1948 return would not pass until all was fulfilled. And this loused people up.

    Just because a few people who claim to be Dispensationalists did/said that does not make it Dispensationalism.

    Hyper-Calvinists say we don't need to evangelize because the elect will get saved regardless. That's not Calvinism.

    You can't lump a whole group because of a few bad eggs. So NO that is NOT Dispensationalism and if that is what you are basing your hatred of Dispensationalism over you are in the wrong.

    If you could quote Ryrie using one direct quote from scripture supporting any futuristic Dispensational claims, you would gain possibly an inch in the direction of truth.

    What does this have to do with anything I just said to you?

    You do not have a scriptural case for anything you say, and you also lose credibility for other things you say if you cannot back any of your futuristic claims with direct quotes from scripture. Song and dance routines containing imaginary gaps, and portions of scripture removed from their context only lessen your credibility more.

    Dave you don't accept (or even read) any Scriptural evidence I supply on this subject, so if anyone loses credibility here it is you.

    You have nothing more than a feeble attempt to justify your position using tons of diversion (hog warsh) when only one direct scripture will do.

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  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    @reformed said:

    Reformed said: "I am familiar with Dispensationalism (obviously)..."

    I am taken back. Help me, Mr. Reformed. I remain. CM

    I never said I couldn't recall the broad points. It is just it would take several hours to discuss them. I don't have that kind of time in an internet forum.

    Reformed,
    I am disappointed that my inquiry seems to have been dismissed because of a lack of "time in an internet forum". My inquiries were broad, yet targeted, where it wouldn't require great sums of time or a scholarly thesis. I wonder how you or another would explain Dispensationalism to the average person? You seem to be only able to explain, if and when a lot of time is available. Would this be limited to high points only?

    Reformed, am I to conclude that Dispensationalism can be only explained by a selected or highly skilled few? I didn't ask you to share from memory. I wonder why, at least, some of my questions couldn't be answered and book references are given for further reading. I think this is fair and reasonable, even for a busy person.

    What would you say or do if you're interviewed by a radio or TV reporter? On second thought, I would think an organization would have prepared answers or brochures on the basic questions I asked.

    Reformed, would it be unrealistic for you to reconsider my broad, yet limited question to better understand what you're familiar with, recall its teachings, and at least willing to defend? If by chance, you reconsider, the questions are:

    1. What are the three types of modern dispensationalism?
    2. Which one did Dr. Ryrie belonged, invented, or advocated?
    3. Which one did he teach you?
    4. Which one do you espouse, Reformed?
    5. Is dispensationalism a hodgepodge of theological scraps?
    6. Does the Bible teach that world history is to be divided into seven dispensations?

    7. Is this breakdown below biblical?

      • "Innocence"
      • "Conscience"
      • "Government"
      • "Patriarchal Rule"
      • "Mosaic Law"
      • "Grace or the Church Age"
      • "The Millennial Kingdom"? Please, tell me what does each mean?

    When it comes to the seven time-blocks or dispensations:

    1. How can something closes if the start is not known?
    2. If there is "no set lengths for a period", how do you know you're in the "Grace or the Church Age" with no date or event as markers?
    3. If the "church age started at Pentecost", what about the five BEFORE the "Church Age"? What are the markers?

    If you would consider answering the questions, in this post, it would surely, help the conversation and keep us from talking (typing) in circles. CM

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