The Kingdom of God
Jesus preached the Kingdom of God was at hand, not of this world, that it comes without observation and is within you. He said some with him would not die until it arrived. And unless a person is born again they cannot see it. And the disciples would not cover the cities of Israel till He arrived. This suggests the kingdom is spiritual and here now. And that it is not a future physical kingdom.
Are we looking for the wrong version of the kingdom? Thinking about it as a physical kingdom? A kingdom where we will walk by sight and not by faith? Rather than a present spiritual kingdom where we walk by faith and lay hold of it once we know what to look for?
Jesus said the Kingdom suffered violence and the violent took it by force since the preaching of John the Baptist....
Comments
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What do you mean by are we looking for the wrong Kingdom? What Kingdom do you suggest we are looking for? I'm confused.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
What do you mean by are we looking for the wrong Kingdom? What Kingdom do you suggest we are looking for? I'm confused.If the kingdom is spiritual instead of physical, we are looking for a kingdom that will never exist if we think it is physical. And missing the one that is here.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
What do you mean by are we looking for the wrong Kingdom? What Kingdom do you suggest we are looking for? I'm confused.If the kingdom is spiritual instead of physical, we are looking for a kingdom that will never exist if we think it is physical. And missing the one that is here.
I believe it is both. There is the spiritual that is now and consists of the body. Then there is the physical which will be the new heaven and earth.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
What do you mean by are we looking for the wrong Kingdom? What Kingdom do you suggest we are looking for? I'm confused.If the kingdom is spiritual instead of physical, we are looking for a kingdom that will never exist if we think it is physical. And missing the one that is here.
I believe it is both. There is the spiritual that is now and consists of the body. Then there is the physical which will be the new heaven and earth.
I believe the New Heavens and Earth will be suited for eternally glorified spiritual bodies. And not physical in the sense we think of in the different millennial schemes.
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There has to be something physical as we are going to have physical bodies...
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@davidtaylorjr said:
There has to be something physical as we are going to have physical bodies...Paul says in the resurrection we are raised in spiritual bodies 1 Corinthians 15:44 or immortal bodies 1 Corinthians 15:51–55.
As I understand, the physical kingdom the Jews and Millennialists are looking for is already here. But only those born again can see it John 3:3. I believe many born again do not see it even though they have the capacity to recognize it if they seek it by faith and not by sight.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
There has to be something physical as we are going to have physical bodies...Paul says in the resurrection we are raised in spiritual bodies 1 Corinthians 15:44 or immortal bodies 1 Corinthians 15:51–55.
As I understand, the physical kingdom the Jews and Millennialists are looking for is already here. But only those born again can see it John 3:3. I believe many born again do not see it even though they have the capacity to recognize it if they seek it by faith and not by sight.
That is not saying that it is not a physical body. It is talking about a glorified body. Here are notes from the Reformation Study Bible:
15:44 natural body … spiritual body. This last contrast is difficult to understand but is >of great importance. Paul does not have in mind a contrast between physical and >nonphysical, material and immaterial. The resurrection body is a physical body, not an >intangible ghost. The apostle has already used the words “natural” and “spiritual” to >distinguish the individual who does not have the Holy Spirit from the one who does >>(2:6, 14 notes). The natural person belongs to the present age (1:20), while the spiritual >person is a citizen of heaven (Phil. 3:20). Christians have received the Holy Spirit and >are on that account “spiritual.” They have not yet received the spiritual “body,” the >physical body that will be fully conformed to the life given by the Spirit. See Rom. 8:22–>25 and note.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
There has to be something physical as we are going to have physical bodies...Paul says in the resurrection we are raised in spiritual bodies 1 Corinthians 15:44 or immortal bodies 1 Corinthians 15:51–55.
As I understand, the physical kingdom the Jews and Millennialists are looking for is already here. But only those born again can see it John 3:3. I believe many born again do not see it even though they have the capacity to recognize it if they seek it by faith and not by sight.
That is not saying that it is not a physical body. It is talking about a glorified body. Here are notes from the Reformation Study Bible:
15:44 natural body … spiritual body. This last contrast is difficult to understand but is >of great importance. Paul does not have in mind a contrast between physical and >nonphysical, material and immaterial. The resurrection body is a physical body, not an >intangible ghost. The apostle has already used the words “natural” and “spiritual” to >distinguish the individual who does not have the Holy Spirit from the one who does >>(2:6, 14 notes). The natural person belongs to the present age (1:20), while the spiritual >person is a citizen of heaven (Phil. 3:20). Christians have received the Holy Spirit and >are on that account “spiritual.” They have not yet received the spiritual “body,” the >physical body that will be fully conformed to the life given by the Spirit. See Rom. 8:22–>25 and note.
Thanks for the comments. I think the New Heavens and earth will be fitted to Christ's glorified body. “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:21)
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@Dave_L said:
Thanks for the comments. I think the New Heavens and earth will be fitted to Christ's glorified body. “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:21)
So you do admit that it is a physical body then?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
Thanks for the comments. I think the New Heavens and earth will be fitted to Christ's glorified body. “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:21)
So you do admit that it is a physical body then?
I do not think scripture supports this. That is, without transformation, the physical body cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven.
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So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?Physical yes, but Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
No. But flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven where he now resides.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
I still don't understand your question.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
I still don't understand your question.
I'm saying that our bodies must undergo transformation before we can enter the New Heavens and Earth on the last day. And our bodies will be like Jesus' glorified body.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
I still don't understand your question.
I'm saying that our bodies must undergo transformation before we can enter the New Heavens and Earth on the last day. And our bodies will be like Jesus' glorified body.
I agree, but that doesn't mean it won't be a physical body which is what you stated earlier.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
I still don't understand your question.
I'm saying that our bodies must undergo transformation before we can enter the New Heavens and Earth on the last day. And our bodies will be like Jesus' glorified body.
I agree, but that doesn't mean it won't be a physical body which is what you stated earlier.
“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:44–45)
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
I still don't understand your question.
I'm saying that our bodies must undergo transformation before we can enter the New Heavens and Earth on the last day. And our bodies will be like Jesus' glorified body.
I agree, but that doesn't mean it won't be a physical body which is what you stated earlier.
“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:44–45)
Dave you can't have it both ways. Either they have a physical body or they do not. You have now said both.
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@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
I still don't understand your question.
I'm saying that our bodies must undergo transformation before we can enter the New Heavens and Earth on the last day. And our bodies will be like Jesus' glorified body.
I agree, but that doesn't mean it won't be a physical body which is what you stated earlier.
“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:44–45)
Dave you can't have it both ways. Either they have a physical body or they do not. You have now said both.
Your argument is with Paul. I cannot change what he wrote.
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@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
I still don't understand your question.
I'm saying that our bodies must undergo transformation before we can enter the New Heavens and Earth on the last day. And our bodies will be like Jesus' glorified body.
I agree, but that doesn't mean it won't be a physical body which is what you stated earlier.
“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:44–45)
Dave you can't have it both ways. Either they have a physical body or they do not. You have now said both.
Your argument is with Paul. I cannot change what he wrote.
No, my argument is that your interpretation is wrong and you don't understand what Paul as actually saying.
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So Christ's body went through another transformation after the ascension?No. Paul says “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
Jesus said a spirit has not flesh and bones in speaking about his resurrection. But Paul also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. And that when Jesus returns we will have a glorified or immortal body like his.
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
So you just contradicted yourself. You just admitted he has a physical body. Therefore we will also have glorified physical bodies, just like it says in Scripture.
Why do the saints who are translated after the resurrection receive glorified bodies like Christs'?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:52–53)
I still don't understand your question.
I'm saying that our bodies must undergo transformation before we can enter the New Heavens and Earth on the last day. And our bodies will be like Jesus' glorified body.
I agree, but that doesn't mean it won't be a physical body which is what you stated earlier.
“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:44–45)
Dave you can't have it both ways. Either they have a physical body or they do not. You have now said both.
Your argument is with Paul. I cannot change what he wrote.
No, my argument is that your interpretation is wrong and you don't understand what Paul as actually saying.
What do you think Paul is saying?
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The body we are born with, sinful flesh, vs the glorified spiritual body we have in Christ at the last resurrection.
