The Kingdom of God
Comments
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
The body we are born with, sinful flesh, vs the glorified spiritual body we have in Christ at the last resurrection.Isn't that what we are both saying? Our bodies are sown in corruption and raised in glory?
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
The body we are born with, sinful flesh, vs the glorified spiritual body we have in Christ at the last resurrection.Isn't that what we are both saying? Our bodies are sown in corruption and raised in glory?
Yes but then you keep throwing in that there is no physical kingdom and no physical bodies.
-
“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust, and like the one from heaven, so too those who are heavenly. And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.” (1 Corinthians 15:44–49)
-
@Dave_L said:
“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust, and like the one from heaven, so too those who are heavenly. And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.” (1 Corinthians 15:44–49)Dave you keep spitting out the same things and contradicting yourself, unless you have something new I'm done with this conversation.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
“it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust, and like the one from heaven, so too those who are heavenly. And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.” (1 Corinthians 15:44–49)Dave you keep spitting out the same things and contradicting yourself, unless you have something new I'm done with this conversation.
Let's not throw in the sponge yet. Perhaps you can share what you believe and enlighten me.
-
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.
Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
-
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.
I cannot go beyond what Paul says. This is why I asked if you would explain your position. Maybe we believe the same but are lacking in our communication.
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.
I cannot go beyond what Paul says. This is why I asked if you would explain your position. Maybe we believe the same but are lacking in our communication.
Christ had a physical body after His resurrection, Scripture says we are also going to have glorified bodies like Christ, therefore we have a physical body, just like Christ.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.
I cannot go beyond what Paul says. This is why I asked if you would explain your position. Maybe we believe the same but are lacking in our communication.
Christ had a physical body after His resurrection, Scripture says we are also going to have glorified bodies like Christ, therefore we have a physical body, just like Christ.
I agree. MacArthur says: Yet His body also had otherworldly properties. He could pass through solid walls (John 20:19). He could appear in different forms so His identity was not immediately obvious (Mark 16:12). He could suddenly appear out of nowhere (Luke 24:36). And He could ascend directly into heaven in bodily form, with no adverse effect as He went through the atmosphere (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9)
https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130701
So this accommodates Paul's "spiritual body" assessment.
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.
I cannot go beyond what Paul says. This is why I asked if you would explain your position. Maybe we believe the same but are lacking in our communication.
Christ had a physical body after His resurrection, Scripture says we are also going to have glorified bodies like Christ, therefore we have a physical body, just like Christ.
I agree. MacArthur says: Yet His body also had otherworldly properties. He could pass through solid walls (John 20:19). He could appear in different forms so His identity was not immediately obvious (Mark 16:12). He could suddenly appear out of nowhere (Luke 24:36). And He could ascend directly into heaven in bodily form, with no adverse effect as He went through the atmosphere (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9)
https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130701
So this accommodates Paul's "spiritual body" assessment.
Yes Dave, that is also what I am saying too. But that doesn't change the fact He had a physical body which you have said does not happen after glorification. So are you retracting that statement?
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.
I cannot go beyond what Paul says. This is why I asked if you would explain your position. Maybe we believe the same but are lacking in our communication.
Christ had a physical body after His resurrection, Scripture says we are also going to have glorified bodies like Christ, therefore we have a physical body, just like Christ.
I agree. MacArthur says: Yet His body also had otherworldly properties. He could pass through solid walls (John 20:19). He could appear in different forms so His identity was not immediately obvious (Mark 16:12). He could suddenly appear out of nowhere (Luke 24:36). And He could ascend directly into heaven in bodily form, with no adverse effect as He went through the atmosphere (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9)
https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130701
So this accommodates Paul's "spiritual body" assessment.
Yes Dave, that is also what I am saying too. But that doesn't change the fact He had a physical body which you have said does not happen after glorification. So are you retracting that statement?
No. I'm saying Jesus' body and ours upon glorification will be suited to the new heavens and earth. “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:2)
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.
I cannot go beyond what Paul says. This is why I asked if you would explain your position. Maybe we believe the same but are lacking in our communication.
Christ had a physical body after His resurrection, Scripture says we are also going to have glorified bodies like Christ, therefore we have a physical body, just like Christ.
I agree. MacArthur says: Yet His body also had otherworldly properties. He could pass through solid walls (John 20:19). He could appear in different forms so His identity was not immediately obvious (Mark 16:12). He could suddenly appear out of nowhere (Luke 24:36). And He could ascend directly into heaven in bodily form, with no adverse effect as He went through the atmosphere (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9)
https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130701
So this accommodates Paul's "spiritual body" assessment.
Yes Dave, that is also what I am saying too. But that doesn't change the fact He had a physical body which you have said does not happen after glorification. So are you retracting that statement?
No. I'm saying Jesus' body and ours upon glorification will be suited to the new heavens and earth. “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:2)
You aren't making any sense.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@DT: I agree with the Westminster and believe it aligns with the scriptures I've submitted throughout this conversation.Chapter XXXII
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the DeadI. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption:[1] but their souls, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them:[2] the souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God, in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies.[3] And the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day.[4] Beside these two places, for souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledges none.
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed:[5] and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.[6]
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.[7]
YES, it says they will have physical bodies Dave. But you have stated repeaedly they will not.
Paul says “It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:42–44)
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.
I cannot go beyond what Paul says. This is why I asked if you would explain your position. Maybe we believe the same but are lacking in our communication.
Christ had a physical body after His resurrection, Scripture says we are also going to have glorified bodies like Christ, therefore we have a physical body, just like Christ.
I agree. MacArthur says: Yet His body also had otherworldly properties. He could pass through solid walls (John 20:19). He could appear in different forms so His identity was not immediately obvious (Mark 16:12). He could suddenly appear out of nowhere (Luke 24:36). And He could ascend directly into heaven in bodily form, with no adverse effect as He went through the atmosphere (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9)
https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130701
So this accommodates Paul's "spiritual body" assessment.
Yes Dave, that is also what I am saying too. But that doesn't change the fact He had a physical body which you have said does not happen after glorification. So are you retracting that statement?
No. I'm saying Jesus' body and ours upon glorification will be suited to the new heavens and earth. “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:2)
You aren't making any sense.
We have many scriptures to balance in order to form a conclusion. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. The translation of the saints following the resurrection where Paul mentions spiritual bodies, immortal bodies, and more. So John says we do not know what we will be, but when Jesus appears we will be like him.
I think the Westminster is vague enough to allow for this as well as MacArthur.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
Once again Dave you are saying nothing new here nor explaining how there is not a physical glorified body just like Christ had/has.Did Christ have a glorified physical body ?
If so, why did he have to show himself in certain circumstances and was apparently not visible to the disciples for most of the time during the 40 days between his resurrection and being received up into the presence of God?
How could a physical body "appear/disappear", that is be visible sometimes and obviously not visible other times?
The body in which Christ showed himself to his disciples including Thomas was apparently the same body he had before in that it had the wounds caused at the time of the crucifixion ... is the glorified resurrection body the same body with the same wounds and other peculiarities it had at the time of death?My understanding after considering the above questions is that Christ's glorified body was NOT a physical body. In addition, I would deem it necessary to consider that Christ's physical body did not see corruption after his death and during the time he was buried, whereas everyone else's bodies will have seen corruption. Was the situation with Christ's resurrection to eternal life and his resurrection appearances special in that it was the first one and the appearances in his previous body were necessary as proof, while after that such proof no longer is needed in the case of anyone else?
-
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
Perhaps a few texts set the record straight. **After Jesus' resurrection, He said to Mary: **
1.** Jesus saith unto her,** "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" (John 20:17 KJV).
2.** Jesus said to Thomas after the resurrection:**
26 "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed."- Jesus ate fish and honeycomb with his disciples after the resurrection:**
"And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took [it], and did eat before them.4. Jesus was taken up into the clouds after His resurrection:
8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:8-11).Jesus after the resurrection, in his glorified body: Was seen, recognized, spoke, was heard, touched and ate. He was not a ghost or some kind phantom.
See also, 1 Cor. 15:51-54
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."Because He lives, I can face tomorrow..." CM
-
@C_M_ said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
Perhaps a few texts set the record straight. **After Jesus' resurrection, He said to Mary: **
1.** Jesus saith unto her,** "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" (John 20:17 KJV).
2.** Jesus said to Thomas after the resurrection:**
26 "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed."- Jesus ate fish and honeycomb with his disciples after the resurrection:**
"And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took [it], and did eat before them.
4. Jesus was taken up into the clouds after His resurrection:
8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:8-11).Jesus after the resurrection, in his glorified body: Was seen, recognized, spoke, was heard, touched and ate. He was not a ghost or some kind phantom.
See also, 1 Cor. 15:51-54
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."Because He lives, I can face tomorrow..." CM
Thanks for all the work you put into this. All I was saying was that Jesus was sinless (perfect) and his body did not begin to rot while in the tomb according to scripture.
“Therefore he also says in another psalm, ‘You will not permit your Holy One to experience decay.’For David, after he had served God’s purpose in his own generation, died, was buried with his ancestors, and experienced decay, but the one whom God raised up did not experience decay.” (Acts 13:35–37)
- Jesus ate fish and honeycomb with his disciples after the resurrection:**
"And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.
-
@Dave_L said:
@C_M_ said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
Perhaps a few texts set the record straight. **After Jesus' resurrection, He said to Mary: **
1.** Jesus saith unto her,** "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" (John 20:17 KJV).
2.** Jesus said to Thomas after the resurrection:**
26 "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed."- Jesus ate fish and honeycomb with his disciples after the resurrection:**
"And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took [it], and did eat before them.
4. Jesus was taken up into the clouds after His resurrection:
8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:8-11).Jesus after the resurrection, in his glorified body: Was seen, recognized, spoke, was heard, touched and ate. He was not a ghost or some kind phantom.
See also, 1 Cor. 15:51-54
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."Because He lives, I can face tomorrow..." CM
Thanks for all the work you put into this. All I was saying was that Jesus was sinless (perfect) and his body did not begin to rot while in the tomb according to scripture.
Did anyone in this thread suggest that it did?
- Jesus ate fish and honeycomb with his disciples after the resurrection:**
"And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.
-
@davidtaylorjr said:
@Dave_L said:
@C_M_ said:
@Dave_L said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Did Christ have a physical body when he rose from the dead? A glorified body?
You did not answer the question. Yes or no, did Jesus have a physical body when he rose from the dead or did everyone see a ghost?
A perfect human body without decay.
Perhaps a few texts set the record straight. **After Jesus' resurrection, He said to Mary: **
1.** Jesus saith unto her,** "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" (John 20:17 KJV).
2.** Jesus said to Thomas after the resurrection:**
26 "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed."- Jesus ate fish and honeycomb with his disciples after the resurrection:**
"And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took [it], and did eat before them.
4. Jesus was taken up into the clouds after His resurrection:
8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:8-11).Jesus after the resurrection, in his glorified body: Was seen, recognized, spoke, was heard, touched and ate. He was not a ghost or some kind phantom.
See also, 1 Cor. 15:51-54
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."Because He lives, I can face tomorrow..." CM
Thanks for all the work you put into this. All I was saying was that Jesus was sinless (perfect) and his body did not begin to rot while in the tomb according to scripture.
Did anyone in this thread suggest that it did?
Thanks for your concern. I originally said [Jesus had] A perfect human body without decay.
So to remove any doubt about what I said, I clarified it by saying "Jesus was sinless (perfect) and his body did not begin to rot while in the tomb according to scripture."
- Jesus ate fish and honeycomb with his disciples after the resurrection:**
"And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet.
-
A perfect human body without decay.
What do you mean by decay? He had no digestion? No normal body cells? No bacterial action occurring at all? Perhaps His body just looked human but was really plastic or something, unaffected by the second law of thermodynamics.
I wonder if that passage could mean something else? Perhaps he in Act 13:37, Paul in his sermon meant that Jesus was resurrected and not still in the grave.
-
Paul was arguing that David could not be speaking of himself in Ps 16:10. We can be pretty sure David eventually returned to dust, like everyone else. As we know, Jesus did not. See Acts 2:29-31. Also don't miss Acts 13:35-36 before reading 37-38.
Context makes a difference.
-
@GaoLu said:
A perfect human body without decay.
What do you mean by decay? He had no digestion? No normal body cells? No bacterial action occurring at all? Perhaps His body just looked human but was really plastic or something, unaffected by the second law of thermodynamics.
I wonder if that passage could mean something else? Perhaps he in Act 13:37, Paul in his sermon meant that Jesus was resurrected and not still in the grave.
Sin produces death and decay. Jesus was sinless as was his body, not having Adam's inherited corruption. So Peter says:
“Therefore he also says in another psalm, ‘You will not permit your Holy One to experience decay.’For David, after he had served God’s purpose in his own generation, died, was buried with his ancestors, and experienced decay, but the one whom God raised up did not experience decay.” (Acts 13:35–37)
-
What you say is good and true and does not address what I said. I just wondered if you wanted to address what I wrote.
-
If you think Jesus' body began to rot in the grave, it did not.
-
I don't know what you mean by "rot." I realize you are not a biologist. But in the sense you may possibly be meaning I suppose you might be more or less right.
-
@GaoLu said:
I don't know what you mean by "rot." I realize you are not a biologist. But in the sense you may possibly be meaning I suppose you might be more or less right.What happens to roadkill in a few days if not buried?
-
<What happens to roadkill in a few days if not buried?
I find your illustrations and allusion to Jesus offensive.Maybe you could address the points I made above rather than ignore them, and then you don't have to resort to repugnant comments about Jesus body.
-
How do you interpret this scripture? I do not think it can be any more clear that Jesus' body did not begin to rot or decay while in the tomb. My roadkill question was an attempt to make sure you understand what "rot" or "decay" means.
“Therefore he also says in another psalm, ‘You will not permit your Holy One to experience decay.’For David, after he had served God’s purpose in his own generation, died, was buried with his ancestors, and experienced decay, but the one whom God raised up did not experience decay.” (Acts 13:35–37)
![[Deleted User]](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fcddec765be35f238a0844bd23f54b59/?default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F8ce8323767a20f0f45db140c4cd2cea1_200.png&rating=g&size=200)
