Florida School Shooting-- NRA Christians to Blame?
Comments
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@Bill_Coley said:
@GaoLu said:
@Bill_ColeyIs it your view, then, that Germany has a firearm death rate that's 1/10 that of the U.S.' rate simply because you're "about 2 decades behind the US society in decadence, et al"? And the fact that Germany, as you reported in your previous post, "has basically been disarmed," to the point that to purchase a gun one has to "prove first 'a need to have one'" plays no role in the disparity between the two nations' rates?
As has been pointed out you are dealing with utterly different demographics. A man of your caliber should readily recognize this. For what reason would you keep comparing them, one might wonder.
The answer is not clear to me, so I ask: Please identify for me the specific "utterly different demographics" which, in your view, explain the fact that the firearm-related death rate in Germany is 1/10 the same rate in the U.S.
And so that I'm clear about your point, are you contending that Germany's gun laws, which, according to Wolfgang, have "basically disarmed" his nation by requiring prospective firearm purchasers to "prove first 'a need to have one'" (a requirement Wolfgang calls "Looney Tunes") make no contribution to the nation's lower firearm death rate?
Yo make the claim. I don't believe it for obvious reasons. If you want to make it credible show how the demographics are remotely relevant. This is your gig--don't ask me to do your work for you.
p.s. A man of my "caliber." Good one.
yeah.
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@GaoLu said:
Yo make the claim. I don't believe it for obvious reasons. If you want to make it credible show how the demographics are remotely relevant. This is your gig--don't ask me to do your work for you.YOU made the claim that demographics matter in this circumstance, not I.
@GaoLu said:
As has been pointed out you are dealing with utterly different demographics. A man of your caliber should readily recognize this. For what reason would you keep comparing them, one might wonder.YOU raised the role of those "utterly different demographics," not I. I'm not asking you to do MY work; I'm asking you to show YOUR work
That clarified, I ask you again:
Please identify for me the specific "utterly different demographics" which, in your view - because YOU raised them - explain the fact that the firearm-related death rate in Germany is 1/10 the same rate in the U.S.
And so that I'm clear about your point, are you contending that Germany's gun laws, which, according to Wolfgang, have "basically disarmed" his nation by requiring prospective firearm purchasers to "prove first 'a need to have one'" (a requirement Wolfgang calls "Looney Tunes") make no contribution to the nation's lower firearm death rate?
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I think you are trolling again, but just in case:
If I have an apple and I have an orange and you say they are the same, I am not wasting time proving to you they are different. If you don't know the fundamental demographic differences between Germany today and the US today, I am not doing your remedial education.
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@GaoLu said:
I think you are trolling again, but just in case:No. Just asking you to take responsibility for the "utterly different demographics" issue that you raised, not I.... It would be great were you also to back up your claim about those demographics, but historically, your most frequent response to challenges of your assertions of fact has been to refuse to back them up.
If I have an apple and I have an orange and you say they are the same, I am not wasting time proving to you they are different. If you don't know the fundamental demographic differences between Germany today and the US today, I am not doing your remedial education.
Yeah. Like that.
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Bill, GaoLu, what does this spells? I.M.P.A.S.S.E. See the meaning below...
"A situation in which no progress is possible, especially because of disagreement; a deadlock". Synonyms: deadlock, dead end, stalemate, standoff. Respectfully, CM
Post edited by C Mc on -
Thanks.
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@C_M_ said:
Wolfgang,
Please, tell me, do the teachers in your country carry guns in the classroom? If not, would you like them too? Do you agree with the US President's idea of guns in the classroom?Nobody generally has the right or is permitted to carry guns anywhere ... and then follow the exceptions: except military, hunter (during hunt), security services (on duty), police (on duty", etc.
The other major exception is the bad guys who do harm and who care none for any gun laws and laugh at law makers making it even harder for any normal person to acquire a gun. -
@davidtaylorjr said:
Ok, full disclosure, I do not have time or interest to watch a video blogger for an hour and a half, so why don't you just point out the crazy conspiracy theories and the proof that backs them up to save me some boredom.because the video contains no conspiracy theories but just a collection of media coverage evidence / proof of what was reported in public media from interviews done with students, etc ....
If you can't differentiate between (a) a conspiracy theory and (b) media clips which record people being interviewed and the statements they made, then I have no clue what you are trying to ask above
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@Bill_Coley said:
And so that I'm clear about your point, are you contending that Germany's gun laws, which, according to Wolfgang, have "basically disarmed" his nation by requiring prospective firearm purchasers to "prove first 'a need to have one'" (a requirement Wolfgang calls "Looney Tunes") make no contribution to the nation's lower firearm death rate?since the need for self-defense does not count as a reason/need to apply to have weapon ... how more "loony tunes" do you need ?
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@C_M_ said:
Bill, GaoLu, what does this spells? I.M.P.A.S.S.E. See the meaning below...
"A situation in which no progress is possible, especially because of disagreement; a deadlock". Synonyms: deadlock, dead end, stalemate, standoff. Respectfully, CMCD forum threads - whether in their current or former iteration - are filled with impasses, in the main because the forums are filled with strong-willed people who believe what they believe and surrender to alternative viewpoints only with great reluctance, and usually only after a struggle.
I accept the reality of points of view different from mine and the impasses such differences produce. What I am much more loathe to accept, however, are unsubstantiated assertions of fact (as opposed to opinions!)
Three years of high school debate long ago and forever decided my approach to assertions of fact. My debate coach pounded into our heads the axiom-cum-commandment that if you assert a fact, you'd better be able to back it up. That's why I offer as many links to supporting evidence as I do in my posts, and why I ask people to support their assertions of fact that I don't believe to be true. Evidence is not needed to back up opinions, but rather the facts upon which opinions are based.
So, impasses over opinions will come and go... happily. But facts will always be facts, and will always call for backup.
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@Wolfgang said:
@Bill_Coley said:
And so that I'm clear about your point, are you contending that Germany's gun laws, which, according to Wolfgang, have "basically disarmed" his nation by requiring prospective firearm purchasers to "prove first 'a need to have one'" (a requirement Wolfgang calls "Looney Tunes") make no contribution to the nation's lower firearm death rate?since the need for self-defense does not count as a reason/need to apply to have weapon ... how more "loony tunes" do you need ?
In one of your responses to CM, you wrote,
"Nobody generally has the right or is permitted to carry guns anywhere ... and then follow the exceptions: except military, hunter (during hunt), security services (on duty), police (on duty", etc."
In all candor, Wolfgang, given such a legal/social setting for guns in your country, and comparing that setting to the fervor for guns in the U.S. is it really surprising that your firearm death rate per 100,000 population is 1/10 the U.S. rate? Can you acknowledge at least the possibility that such a setting could contribute to your nation's lower firearm death rate?
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@Bill_Coley said:
In all candor, Wolfgang, given such a legal/social setting for guns in your country, and comparing that setting to the fervor for guns in the U.S. is it really surprising that your firearm death rate per 100,000 population is 1/10 the U.S. rate? Can you acknowledge at least the possibility that such a setting could contribute to your nation's lower firearm death rate?Compare apples with bananas or carrots .... and try and compare what doesn't make for a proper comparison
YES ... of course, the possibility for more people being killed by 100 guns than by 1 gun
It's just too bad that the 1 gun mad amok fellow killed 15 people with his 1 gun ... despite the gun laws being the way they are.
If you haven't noticed: the BAD guy isn't influenced by lesser or higher difficulty to get a gun - he GETS THE GUN no matter what the law says. It is irrelevant to the terrorist, madman, etc what the constitution or any purchasing laws for guns say ...
Taking people's self-defense out of their own hands (and in effect criminalizing it!) makes no sense .... unless there is a bigger plan behind it.
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@Wolfgang said:
If you haven't noticed: the BAD guy isn't influenced by lesser or higher difficulty to get a gun - he GETS THE GUN no matter what the law says. It is irrelevant to the terrorist, madman, etc what the constitution or any purchasing laws for guns say ...
This is what the government enforcement teams are for. Knowing your country's past (you know it best), your elected head-of-state is doing what it can to avoid what's going on in the USA, aided by the NRA.
Schools, teachers with guns in the classrooms, and kids are just a bad as drinking and driving. Someone is going to die. Encourage Americans to "just say no" to teachers with guns in the classroom packing pistols. More love and protection for the children. CM
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@C_M_ said:
@Wolfgang said:
If you haven't noticed: the BAD guy isn't influenced by lesser or higher difficulty to get a gun - he GETS THE GUN no matter what the law says. It is irrelevant to the terrorist, madman, etc what the constitution or any purchasing laws for guns say ...This is what the government enforcement teams are for.
I suppose this is why they were several such offices on scene in Lakleland FL when the shooting happened ?? ... and yet their presence did NOTHING profitable much of helping the situation?
But perhaps, it was just another "coincidence" of a planned and scheduled "code red" drill "gone bad" ????
I suggest to watch the video with the collection of many different public media (!) clips with interviews of students and others present there and what they had to say.
those who are afraid (and find all kinds of excuses) to watch the video because it is so long, can check themselves on youtube and find the various individual small clips independently ... it just may be more convenient that they were collected in on place by a lady who then tried to log though them and time stamp and put together a picture of what is said in those interviews ....
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@Wolfgang said:
Compare apples with bananas or carrots .... and try and compare what doesn't make for a proper comparisonI compare the identical firearm death rate per 100,000 population in your country, with your gun laws, and mine, with our gun laws. Because I'm comparing the identical statistic between the two countries, I consider that apples to apples, bananas to bananas, AND carrots to carrots.
When I make that comparison, I see my country's death rate for firearms is ten times greater per population than your country's death rate. Ten times. Apples to ten times as many apples.
I don't need to study the psychology of "bad guys" to know that there's something BADLY wrong with a country where ten times as many people per population die as in another country.
School shootings are horrific, in whatever country they occur. But it's ALSO horrific that the U.S. has a firearm death rate that's ten times greater than Germany's. And since thousands more people die every year in non-mass shooting events in the U.S. than in mass shootings, the loss of life from the 10x greater firearm death rate is far greater than in mass shooting events alone.
Do you agree, at least in principle, that if you had to choose between Germany's firearm death rate and the U.S.'s rate (which is ten times greater than Germany's) you'd choose Germany's rate?
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@Wolfgang said:
@C_M_ said:
@Wolfgang said:
If you haven't noticed: the BAD guy isn't influenced by lesser or higher difficulty to get a gun - he GETS THE GUN no matter what the law says. It is irrelevant to the terrorist, madman, etc what the constitution or any purchasing laws for guns say ...This is what the government enforcement teams are for.
I suppose this is why they were several such offices on scene in Lakleland FL when the shooting happened ... and did NOTHING profitable much of helping the situation.
You don't believe this, do you? Drill or not, those officers on the outside had their post of duty to maintain. CM
But perhaps, it was just another "coincidence" of a planned and scheduled "code red" drill "gone bad" ????
No, no, real children died. Listen to yourself. Are you saying the boy that did the shooting was a cop or working with law enforcement? Or, is he being framed? CM
I suggest to watch the video with the collection of many different public media (!) clips with interviews of students and others present there and what they had to say.
A state of shock and high emotions, the children are not detectives in describing accurately, in a context and sequence of what happened.
Beware, Americans are free to say what they want and produce any type of movie or documentary. CM
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@Wolfgang said:
@davidtaylorjr said:
Ok, full disclosure, I do not have time or interest to watch a video blogger for an hour and a half, so why don't you just point out the crazy conspiracy theories and the proof that backs them up to save me some boredom.because the video contains no conspiracy theories but just a collection of media coverage evidence / proof of what was reported in public media from interviews done with students, etc ....
If you can't differentiate between (a) a conspiracy theory and (b) media clips which record people being interviewed and the statements they made, then I have no clue what you are trying to ask above
Are we talking about the same video??? The link I clicked just had a woman on a camera in a living room just rambling?
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@Bill_Coley said:
When I make that comparison, I see my country's death rate for firearms is ten times greater per population than your country's death rate. Ten times. Apples to ten times as many apples.the "mental sick rate" among certain age groups and cultural backgrounds in the USA to that in my country is most likely far worse.
although, we are being purposely flooded by groups and cultures which will bring the ratio most likely quickly down to same or similar rates ... some cities already have "no go zones" where even police don't go in anymore ...I don't need to study the psychology of "bad guys" to know that there's something BADLY wrong with a country where ten times as many people per population die as in another country.
Good for you ... I feared it might not be so .
Do you agree, at least in principle, that if you had to choose between Germany's firearm death rate and the U.S.'s rate (which is ten times greater than Germany's) you'd choose Germany's rate?
Choosing between those rates would be worthless to choose ... as the problems are not related to gun control laws as such
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Hi folks,
for your own opinion ... a few interesting developments in the lakeland FL school shooting scenario. Although I am almost certain that most likely nobody here will even take a serious look at the linked articles, I'll post the links anyways ...Questions Emerge Over Florida Shooter's "Full Metal Garb"
InfoWars Receives YouTube Termination Warning Over "Crisis Actor" Video
Seems like the means of proper investigation of a crime or alleged crime is clouded and muddied so the public really can't form their own opinions anymore .... just the official story must be told, folks
Good night, America ... what has happened to the land that claims to be the land of the free and the home of the brave ???? I am in tears over the status of the beloved home country of my wife ... and how its people have been utterly brainwashed, taken hostage in their own country, etc ...
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Disturbing. How did the young man get away? How far is the Walmart from the school?
What is real and certain: 17-people are dead. CM
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@C_M_ said:
Disturbing. How did the young man get away? How far is the Walmart from the school?What is real and certain: 17-people are dead. CM
He dropped his weapon and then blended into the crowd who was in chaos moving out of the building.
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@Wolfgang said:
the "mental sick rate" among certain age groups and cultural backgrounds in the USA to that in my country is most likely far worse.I provided links to the firearm death rates in our respective countries, Wolfgang. You now suggest that the "mental sick rate among certain age groups and backgrounds" might be a factor in those rates. Can you provide links to back up your suggestion?
although, we are being purposely flooded by groups and cultures which will bring the ratio most likely quickly down to same or similar rates ... some cities already have "no go zones" where even police don't go in anymore ...
What do "no go zones" have to do with the fact that ten times more people, per 100,000 population, die from firearms in the U.S. than die in Germany?
Choosing between those rates would be worthless to choose ... as the problems are not related to gun control laws as such
I didn't ask for your views as to the cause(s) of our respective firearm death rates, Wolfgang. I asked only which firearm death rate you'd choose - Germany's or the U.S.'s - if you had to choose one. So I ask again.
So bottom line: Is it your view that it's just a coincidence that your country's firearm death rate is one-tenth the rate in my country, while your nation's gun laws leave you what you called "basically disarmed" and gun laws in my country are FAR more lenient? Do you claim that our nations' respective gun laws play no significant role in those results?
Or put another way: Do you believe that if German gun laws mirrored American gun laws, and there were as many guns per capita in Germany as there are in the U.S. that the firearm death rate in Germany wouldn't be significantly higher than it is today?
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Oh, Bill Good Grief. Are you just going to go on forever inventing conclusions from untenable premises--always (??) isolated from context? I hate to cut you short, but that just isn't my interest.
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@GaoLu said:
Oh, Bill Good Grief. Are you just going to go on forever inventing conclusions from untenable premises--always (??) isolated from context? I hate to cut you short, but that just isn't my interest.I expect to live (and post) for a few more years, Gao Lu, but I have no reason to believe I'll do so forever. So you can rest assured that when I go, my invented conclusions, untenable premises, and isolated contexts will go with me. And from the tenor of your objections to them, I bet that for you that will be good grief indeed.
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Brothers,
Let's stay focused. News about Guns in the USA, OPPOSED BY THE NRA:
Read it for yourself: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/walmart-joins-dicks-in-raising-minimum-age-to-buy-firearms-to-21-2018-02-28
Walmart joins Dick’s in raising the minimum age to buy firearms to 21.
- Walmart Inc. and Dick’s Sporting Goods Inc. said they would no longer sell guns to anyone under 21 years old, as two of the country’s biggest gun sellers tightened their policies in the wake of a high-school shooting that left 17 people dead in Parkland, Fla.
Both retailers said Wednesday they were making the change in light of the tragedy. “We take seriously our obligation to be a responsible seller of firearms,” Walmart WMT, -1.65% said in a statement.
Building on our 2015 decision to not sell modern sporting rifles, we announced important changes today:
Raising the age for purchase of firearms and ammunition from 18 to 21 years old
- Removing online items resembling assault-style rifles
- Students return to School today. Let's keep them in prayer.
- Mr. Trump met with Dems and agreed, for now, to increase the age limit for purchasing AR-15 in which the NRA is opposed. Stay tuned...CM
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Brethren,
Would it be nice if the supporting Christian members of the NRA to leave this organization? Let them keep their guns, but LEAVE this organization. Where will they go-- "The Lord's Army". Stand with the students, the families, and change. Will nothing change in gun deaths? Do it anyway! What think ye? CM -
@C_M_ said:
Walmart joins Dick’s in raising the minimum age to buy firearms to 21.- Walmart Inc. and Dick’s Sporting Goods Inc. said they would no longer sell guns to anyone under 21 years old, as two of the country’s biggest gun sellers tightened their policies in the wake of a high-school shooting that left 17 people dead in Parkland, Fla.
Dick's removed assault-style weapons from its own branded stores in 2012, after the Sandy Hook massacre, but continued to sell them in their Field and Stream stores. This time the company says none of its stores will sell the weapons, and that the decision is permanent. Taken in tandem with Wal Mart's decision, I think there is hope for real change in the gun marketplace. The Parkland massacre seems to have hit deeper nerves than previous massacres.
- Mr. Trump met with Dems and agreed, for now, to increase the age limit for purchasing AR-15 in which the NRA is opposed. Stay tuned...CM
In a similar-style meeting with congressional leaders on immigration a month or so ago, the president said he would sign whatever legislation the gathered group agreed to, That turned out not to be true, as Mr Trump returned to his anti-immigration, xenophobic instincts within a few days. The moral of that story, CM, is that history teaches that there's reason to wonder whether what the president said during Wednesday's meeting will shape what the president actually does next week or next month.
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Yawn. Appease liberal stockholders. Nothing really changes. No one, and I mean probably no on earth is really going to care or be affected. We need to do something meaningful.
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Has anyone else noticed that with recent "events" (such as the Lakeland FL school massaker, Boston marathon bombing, and even back to the 09/11 disaster, and other such tragedies, there were "code red drills" or similar "excercises" for the exact scenarios in place which then (for whatever reason) turned from exercise to real ??
Are these all coincidences, or what??How come nobody of the officials in command of the exercise were reprimanded or fired due to gross failure, inadequacy for the job? Instead the military folk after 09/11 conducting the "drill" resulting in the greatest disaster/failure of country security received promotions for their failure to defend the place properly ...
What were the police on the scene in Lakeland FL doing, already being on scene (!!) expecting something what then really happened? Why did they not do their duty quickly, seeing they did not even have to be called and drive to the place?
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@C_M_ said:
Brethren,
Would it be nice if the supporting Christian members of the NRA to leave this organization? Let them keep their guns, but LEAVE this organization. Where will they go-- "The Lord's Army". Stand with the students, the families, and change. Will nothing change in gun deaths? Do it anyway! What think ye? CMI can see a couple of reasons why Christians should not belong to the NRA. How can you preach Christ to those who resist the NRA's political impact? Also, if madness is in people's hearts while they live, i.e., all but the born again are crazy, and the born again are in a continuing state of recovering sanity, why arm anyone???? And insist on keeping them armed? Shouldn't we be beating our swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks?
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